[urq] 01E Torsen Madness

[AF]

Thanks for the informative post Scott. To round this out though, for those
of us who have not delved deep into the mechanical overhaul of a
transmission, can the center section (diff) be removed from another vehicle
with locking capabilities and "retrofitted" on an 01E, or is it 6 spd =
torsen? Is it possible to fit an 016 locker on a 01E, 'cause that sounds
ballsy to me. Thanks so much.

Andrew Finney
1985 UrQ 4.2L

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>  Hey Andrew
> It took a while for me to study and understand the Wavetrac operation.  I'm
> not sure that is the answer, probably better than a torsen, but it still
> isn't going to act like a locker under braking.  The Wavetrac works the same
> way Left Foot Braking works on a Torsen.  If there is no load on a torsen
> (wheel lift) there is no drive to the wheels (0 x TBR = 0).  What many have
> found out is the Torsen can be fooled by using the brakes to add load to the
> slipping axle.  The Wavetrac appears to work the same way, but it just
> internally adds load to the axles by forcing the axles to 'climb' the wave
> profile built into the axle, forcing 'load' on both axles regardless of
> traction.  For more on how this works
> http://www.wavetrac.net/technical.htm
> That 'preload' is also adjustable, but I really don't see that being so
> high as to assist in Ideal Brake Force Distribution.  Put another way, if
> you preload the Wavetrac enough to bring on Ideal Brake Force Distribution,
> it will likely not really be any more driveable than a locked center.
> Further, if you envision a braking scenario where a rear is 'impending'
> lockup, you will be bouncing up and down that wave profile at the same time
> you are trying to 'unlock' rear brakes.  IMO, this will be worse under
> braking than a torsen, as in a straight line (acceleration or
> deceleration/braking) the torsen is consistent in allocation of torque,
> which means it will not 'interfere' with braking.
>
> I see a lot of hype on MG about modifying a Torsen to be "High Bias" ala
> Stasis modifications.  The fundamental problem with this mod IMO, is almost
> every quattro car is a static understeering chassis.  Which means, if the
> rear wheels lose traction from this modification, the car will understeer
> when the (TBR x 0 = 0) occurs, OR the loss in traction shifts torque
> forward.  In a street car, the effect of this will be a spider bite later in
> the turn (after apex vs at the apex), but IMO, it's not able to eliminate
> it.  Add in more rear bar, also adds more propensity to lift a wheel, which
> then brings you back to the 0TBR formula.
>
> I'm quite surprised that Stasis hasn't moved to the clutchpak rear diff as
> Jeff G proposes.  The key to any of these TBR mods, is to keep the traction
> at the rear.  An open rear diff or a torsen rear diff won't do that in a
> wheel lift scenario, because you are back to the 0TBR problem.  Plus a
> torsen rear that goes up in the air, then hits the ground has a tendency to
> explode, btrepaired that.  Back to your quandry.....
>
> For a non-abs car, adding a torsen is fine for 9/10ths of driving.
> However, a 'big' issue of brake balance comes into play, which the torsen
> also affects.  I expect to see a lot of problems with retrofitted torsens in
> a performance environment, and the gains going back to the guy with the
> locking button for his center diff.  What we fail to point out in many of
> these discussions is, the locker center in 'open' mode, is still awd, and
> also 'fine for 9/10ths of driving'.  Go to the track, hit the 'predictable
> understeer' button, then unlock and drive home.  After 32 years of FWD/AWD
> cars, I fail to understand such a grand fight of the laws of physics.  I
> have no problem with understeer, make it really predictable - that's the
> goal.  The unfair advantage to a locked center then, is much better braking,
> especially in the non-abs cars.
>
> my .02 arbitraged thru the peso
>
> Scott J
> Torsen 4kq
> Locker everything else
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: afinn1 <afinn1 at gmail.com>
> To: urq at audifans.com
> Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:13 am
> Subject: [urq] 01E Madness
>
> With all this talk about torsens it has me worrying that the 01E that I had
> planned to install in the urq v8 will disappoint. I really rely on that
> locked center dif in my 016 as a poor mans antilock. Is there a lockable
> center dif for the 01e? Anyone tried the wavetrak differential? It claims to
> be preloaded. Would it lock under braking? Any thoughts appreciated. Sorry
> if this is a duplicate post. I think my last posts got lost in the server
> hiccup.
>
> Andrew Finney
>
>
>