[urq] 01E Torsen Madness

[AF]

What about a clutch type LSD from the 944. There are rumors that they can be
retrofitted into the 01E center. Has anyone had any experience with this?
Would clutch-type LSDs behave any differently under braking, or would they
also be "open" in this situation?Thanks.

Andrew Finney
1985 UrQ V8.

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:12 AM, <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:

> The short answer is 'no'.  That said, anything is possible with enough
> money.  But the 01A/O1E transmissions are completely redesigned (basically
> O1A/E Series are based on a racing gearbox design) and not much from an 016
> will fit into the 01E/A.  So little will exchange in fact, about the only
> thing we know about both being 'similar', is the block bolt pattern is the
> same.
>
> From a modification perspective, I suspect that the torsen could be removed
> from the 01E, then a custom fabricated dog clutch center diff could be put
> in it's place, but I bet that would be very pricey.
>
> HTH and my .02
>
> Scott J
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AF <afinn1 at gmail.com>
> To: qshipq at aol.com
> Cc: urq at audifans.com; torsen at audifans.com
> Sent: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 6:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [urq] 01E Torsen Madness
>
>  Thanks for the informative post Scott. To round this out though, for
> those of us who have not delved deep into the mechanical overhaul of a
> transmission, can the center section (diff) be removed from another vehicle
> with locking capabilities and "retrofitted" on an 01E, or is it 6 spd =
> torsen? Is it possible to fit an 016 locker on a 01E, 'cause that sounds
> ballsy to me. Thanks so much.
>
> Andrew Finney
> 1985 UrQ 4.2L
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:58 AM, <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey Andrew
>> It took a while for me to study and understand the Wavetrac operation.
>> I'm not sure that is the answer, probably better than a torsen, but it still
>> isn't going to act like a locker under braking.  The Wavetrac works the same
>> way Left Foot Braking works on a Torsen.  If there is no load on a torsen
>> (wheel lift) there is no drive to the wheels (0 x TBR = 0).  What many have
>> found out is the Torsen can be fooled by using the brakes to add load to the
>> slipping axle.  The Wavetrac appears to work the same way, but it just
>> internally adds load to the axles by forcing the axles to 'climb' the wave
>> profile built into the axle, forcing 'load' on both axles regardless of
>> traction.  For more on how this works
>> http://www.wavetrac.net/technical.htm
>> That 'preload' is also adjustable, but I really don't see that being so
>> high as to assist in Ideal Brake Force Distribution.  Put another way, if
>> you preload the Wavetrac enough to bring on Ideal Brake Force Distribution,
>> it will likely not really be any more driveable than a locked center.
>> Further, if you envision a braking scenario where a rear is 'impending'
>> lockup, you will be bouncing up and down that wave profile at the same time
>> you are trying to 'unlock' rear brakes.  IMO, this will be worse under
>> braking than a torsen, as in a straight line (acceleration or
>> deceleration/braking) the torsen is consistent in allocation of torque,
>> which means it will not 'interfere' with braking.
>>
>> I see a lot of hype on MG about modifying a Torsen to be "High Bias" ala
>> Stasis modifications.  The fundamental problem with this mod IMO, is almost
>> every quattro car is a static understeering chassis.  Which means, if the
>> rear wheels lose traction from this modification, the car will understeer
>> when the (TBR x 0 = 0) occurs, OR the loss in traction shifts torque
>> forward.  In a street car, the effect of this will be a spider bite later in
>> the turn (after apex vs at the apex), but IMO, it's not able to eliminate
>> it.  Add in more rear bar, also adds more propensity to lift a wheel, which
>> then brings you back to the 0TBR formula.
>>
>> I'm quite surprised that Stasis hasn't moved to the clutchpak rear diff as
>> Jeff G proposes.  The key to any of these TBR mods, is to keep the traction
>> at the rear.  An open rear diff or a torsen rear diff won't do that in a
>> wheel lift scenario, because you are back to the 0TBR problem.  Plus a
>> torsen rear that goes up in the air, then hits the ground has a tendency to
>> explode, btrepaired that.  Back to your quandry.....
>>
>> For a non-abs car, adding a torsen is fine for 9/10ths of driving.
>> However, a 'big' issue of brake balance comes into play, which the torsen
>> also affects.  I expect to see a lot of problems with retrofitted torsens in
>> a performance environment, and the gains going back to the guy with the
>> locking button for his center diff.  What we fail to point out in many of
>> these discussions is, the locker center in 'open' mode, is still awd, and
>> also 'fine for 9/10ths of driving'.  Go to the track, hit the 'predictable
>> understeer' button, then unlock and drive home.  After 32 years of FWD/AWD
>> cars, I fail to understand such a grand fight of the laws of physics.  I
>> have no problem with understeer, make it really predictable - that's the
>> goal.  The unfair advantage to a locked center then, is much better braking,
>> especially in the non-abs cars.
>>
>> my .02 arbitraged thru the peso
>>
>> Scott J
>> Torsen 4kq
>> Locker everything else
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: afinn1 <afinn1 at gmail.com>
>> To: urq at audifans.com
>> Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:13 am
>> Subject: [urq] 01E Madness
>>
>> With all this talk about torsens it has me worrying that the 01E that I
>> had planned to install in the urq v8 will disappoint. I really rely on that
>> locked center dif in my 016 as a poor mans antilock. Is there a lockable
>> center dif for the 01e? Anyone tried the wavetrak differential? It claims to
>> be preloaded. Would it lock under braking? Any thoughts appreciated. Sorry
>> if this is a duplicate post. I think my last posts got lost in the server
>> hiccup.
>>
>> Andrew Finney
>>
>>
>>
>