[urq] Bad starter?

[urq]

This is why it is best to follow the troubleshooting techniques Audi specified 
back when for failure to crank issues.  I learned this the hard way with my '78 
Fox GTI ... 


The first thing Audi suggests is to measure the voltage at the starter solenoid 
when the key is in the start position.  You will want to pull the FP relay (or 
coil wire) to make sure the engine doesn't start should the starter start 
cranking the engine.  You're in the presence of wires that can carry hundreds of 
amps of current; make sure you are not wearing any conductive jewelry and be 
careful with the meter leads.  If memory serves, Audi says that if the voltage 
measured is less than 9.7 volts, to look backwards toward the battery.  It may 
well be the battery, but any of the current carrying devices in the path are 
suspect as well.  


In the case of my Fox, the wire that ran to the starter had become cooked and 
oxidized from heat exposure over the years and presented a resistance too high 
to supply the current the solenoid needed to engage the flywheel.  Another 
possible culprit is the ground braid near the motor mount on the spark plug side 
of the engine.  Perhaps the ignition switch contact has high resistance.  


My recommendation is never to go in and swap parts to try to fix a problem ... 
take measurements that can confirm your suspicions beforehand.  


I would also recommend that you consider adding a "load reduction" relay between 
the ignition switch and the starter solenoid.  If the load reduction relay is 
located in the engine compartment near the starter and alternator you can 
provide a proper voltage to the solenoid by sourcing the solenoid supply from 
the alternator ... and don't forget to put a fuse in the line.  This is a 
perfect time to consider relaying the headlights and using that same voltage 
supply to give good, bright headlights and minimze the load on the switches.  
Make sure to place these relays in a weatherproof box.  


The good news is that once you find and fix the source of the problem the new 
battery and starter will mean that you won't have to worry about either for a 
while.  


Steve Buchholz



________________________________
From: Thatcher Hubbard
Sent: Mon, November 7, 2011 8:35:48 AM
Subject: Re: [urq] Bad starter?

Well, it's not the starter or the battery, both of which have now been
replaced.  Man, getting a starter out of this car is a crappy job.

I'm out of ideas.  I hear a very definite click under the hood, which I
presume to be the starter solenoid.  I guess I'll have to crawl under there
with a multi-meter and have my wife cycle the ignition.  Clearly, I should
have done this first.

I don't really mind having the old starter out though.  The thing was
falling apart.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 12:10 AM, audiqtrocp wrote:

> I have a brand new $180 starter sitting on my shelf because I denied the
> fact that 'it could have been a bad battery already'.
>
> In Seattle you guys dont have the extremes in weather that we do in Vegas
> but assume the battery until you prove it's not.
>
> Sent from my iPhone for, the one with the bigger Gee Bee's
>
> On Oct 26, 2011, at 12:28, "Patrick Carlier" wrote:
>
> > Most likely the brushes in the starter are worn and or stuck .
> > Symptomes are you can hear the starter relais click but
> > the motor doesn't engage .
> >
> > Sometimes "gently"  tapping the starter with a hammer will revive it .
> > Only  for a very limited period of time , but when you're stuck in the
> > middle of nowhere it's worth trying . Take the gently with a grain of
> salt .
> > Sometimes you'll have to hit it pretty hard .
> >
> > The real fix is to take it apart and replace the brushes .
> > And if possible give the rotor a pass on the lathe  to clean up
> > the collector . It's an easy thing to do , and a brushes kit will
> > cost about 40€ ( 60usd approx )
> >
> > Good luck
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <
> > To: "Urq List" <urq at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:01 PM
> > Subject: [urq] Bad starter?
> >
> >
> >> It got down into the 30's for the first time here in Seattle last night.
> >> This morning, I get nothing but clicking when I try to start the
> quattro.
> >>
> >> The alternator was done last year, and was showing an excellent 14.3V
> >> between terminals after the replacement.  I have not pulled the back
> seat up
> >> yet to make sure the battery is truly good, but all the lights are
> strong.
> >> I will pull the seat and do a battery check before I do anything, but it
> >> seems like this might be the starter?
> >>
> >> I get a click from under the dash (ignition relay?) and a louder click
> from
> >> under the hood.  I'm quite sure the starter in the car is the original,
> so
> >> if it is dead, it made it almost 30 years, not a bad run.
> >>
> >> Just wanted a second opinion and some BTDT from the list before I go
> >> ordering a new starter motor.
> >>
> >> As always, thanks,
> >>
> >> Thatcher Hubbard
> >> Seattle, WA