[urq] dissin on CIS

Sun Jul 14 20:39:47 PDT 2013

LOL...so true in all aspects.
When I purchased I drove my WX 1985 from CA to CT coast to coast 3,000 miles away....bone stock CIS...The car intermittent misfire at 4k rpms.   When I got home December 31 ready for the holidays, I put the car away in the garage.  the next 5 month I spend 1hr  here and there after work with my best investment "the repair manual" for my 1987.5 CGT...I also have the UR original manual that came with the car.  I was so worry, since everyone has told me about the night mare this car can be.  every time it misfire some place between CA & CT....my heart jump 20 beats and would I think I just made the biggest mistakes and it would turn into a money pit.   Boy! was I wrong,  that car made me understand electronics/mechanical fuel injection.  And I am just a bicycle mechanic.  Today -DIY- I fix my BMW, MB, Porsche and my VW, just because of the Ur-quattro I learned the basics.
Able to fix my stock CIS UR-quattro and drive it far distances is priceless to me.  she is not my daily driver but my weekend fun car next to my (964-C4 and my E30-M3) but she fires right up every time and so far cost me less than the other 2 in maintenance.  I get more heads turn and complements on the quattro than my C4 or M3.
Things that I did were: replace all the engine wires, all 2 & 3 pin Bosh connectors and check the CIU fuel Pressure, Pressure, Pressure, Pressure until all specs are met.
Any one can own these cars, keeping them running is the goal.

~~~~~~~~~~~~__o 
~~~~~~~~~ _  \ <_   
~~~~~~~~ (     ) / (     )™
Ed Torres
RIDE & DRIVE SAFE & SMOOTH!!  

> From: shr42 at msn.com
> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 08:12:15 -0700
> To: Qshipq at aol.com
> CC: urq at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [urq] dissin on CIS
> 
> 
>    --- Right On ,  Scott !!!    A great observation and truth ..          Take Care ,    Stephen H. Redford  "85Urq  Megasquirt (and wishin for a 3B to be installed)     ...   :)))
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 11, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Scott Justusson wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > LOL, not dissin as much as experience facing realities *with* many urq owners over the years, many right on this very forum.  Long-standing urq owners are aging with these Mistresses we call Quattro Steve.  With that comes a change from the passion to tweek and the patience to allow her 'personalities' to show at the worst time.  I spend a significant amount of urq labor, on just plain counseling.  Corbs quandry is a standard issue PM/phone conversation in my world.  My patience for 'one more project' on my toys wanes, not just from it being my job during the day, but because I find my 'enjoyment' of toys changing over the years.  I want to play with my toys, not build, rebuild and accept the original specification issues.
> > 
> > I have many stories of Quattro enthusiasts (not the DIY boys) that have less 'free' time to escape with their mistress for a romp.  Which means exactly, when they do, enjoyment eclipses unacceptable fussiness at a significant priority level.  A 20vt Motronic conversion can help us age with our mistresses in a kind way, without the overwhelming draw to a younger, less finicky drive.  Add in the hassle factor of finding 'the' CIS guru, significan- others rolling eyes about dropping you off there 'again', and the reality, that as we age, the 'family' view of the urq becomes a significant factor.  If no one trusts it but you, you won't be driving it much with passengers.
> > 
> > I know all these things, because I've counseled many on these exact issues.  Here the OP is a classic example. I know Corbs could do all the work himself, as he's a most capable wrench.  The car has been sitting (with some issue) for years until he could find a guy to do the work.  Which means exactly he has found a substitute mistress in the interim, and/or he lost the passion for taking the time required to make this car have *value to him!*  The last part is the most significant.
> > 
> > I absolute roll my eyes at the thought of an urq owner looking for resale value, and basing owner decisions on them.  By the time a 20vt resto-mod done right has less value than the original, I suspect most of us will not care.  I counsel about Mistresses theory more than any other.  Spend and waste your money in what gives your car *value* to you.  Dawson's quote is dead nuts on...  You spend money to give the car some unknown future market value, the best thing you can do, is just lock her in your garage and don't screw with her at all.
> > 
> > CIS?  My daughter in college 6 hours away had a CIS-E CGT.  A 3mm allen and an extra DPR in case something happened to that 110hp monster.  I don't have the same confidence that an urq would be nearly as reliable to remotely fix and/or maintain.  However, a bone stock 3B converted urq?  In a heartbeat, because it's just that much more betta.  
> > 
> > I see nothing pure about a less than pristine mint original urq, then only to say you own one.  The rest of us that like to romp with our mistresses often?  3B is a no-brainer on so many levels, *and* you willl find the family will want to take that urq, instead of tolerating it and your lust.
> > 
> > Scott J
> > 84 urq
> > 83 urq
> > 87 4k20vtq
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: urq <urq at pacbell.net>
> > To: urq <urq at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 9:35 am
> > Subject: Re: [urq] dissin on CIS
> > 
> > 
> > . funny, sounds like dissin to me . but that's OK, and of course I agree
> > with some of the notes on characteristics.  That is not to say that there
> > are things that can be done to minimize them . like making sure your hoses
> > don't fall off!
> > 
> > An urq is a 30 year old car, and I'd hazard a guess that even with Motronic
> > you can end up sitting on the side of the road with pissed off passengers
> > from time to time.  I happen to recall one instance with an ABZ equipped urq
> > (fortunately no passengers ;).  BTDT myself on a Motronic equipped sedan,
> > which tends to piss them off more than I think they would had they been in a
> > more "fun" car . 
> > 
> > As is evident from my FB page, I know full well the issues with the WX urq
> > at 12,000 feet . fortunately for me I don't often spend much time there .
> > never had much problem with mine below about 7500 . 
> > 
> > Steve Buchholz
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Scott Justusson [mailto:qshipq at aol.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:28 AM
> > To: urq at pacbell.net; urq at audifans.com
> > Subject: Re: [urq] dissin on CIS
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > LOL, I don't diss on CIS, I still have a couple, and work on several.  Let
> > me share my 35 years of CIS experience (back to my 91 Pro Rally Scirocco),
> > and 20 on urq's specifically.  First, the problem with urq CIS is not the
> > starting... Several years ago, I had a 'sold' urq in my shop for almost a
> > year, and when I needed to move it every couple months it started right
> > up....  It's 'after' that cold start that 2 major issues come into play.
> > 
> > First one is a nitpick of mine, the Mac02 IMO, was never designed to have an
> > Oxygen sensor.  When that circuit was added, there is a noticeable fallout
> > stumble in the transition to Closed Loop operation.  I have yet to *not* see
> > it in the 20 some urq's I've worked on, and the 'later' Mac02 programming
> > slighting improved, but didn't eliminate the problem.  A finely tuned urq
> > will have 'less', and average urq will have more.  I operate on two minty
> > low mileage ones over the years, it's there...  Always.
> > 
> > Second, it's not the cold start, it's the hot restart that creates a
> > problem.  This is caused by a hot turbo and exhaust manifold heat guns,
> > located directly below the intake and cis lines and injectors.  Again, based
> > on tune and hot start circuit condition, it can be 'better' or 'worse', but
> > it can't be eliminated.  IME2 at altitude it's more pronounced (regardless
> > of tune).  I have pictures of more than 1 urq at our early Steamboat urq
> > reunions, of various 'non starters' getting towed around snow covered
> > parking lots.
> > 
> > Lastly, any boost leak in an urq, will and can strand a driver on a
> > restart..  A boost leak in motronic has to be a hose missing...  BTDT to
> > both.  I will say this, I've never owned a CIS car without a 3mm allen in
> > the glovebox.  Even my CISE cars have them, albeit not used often.
> > 
> > Me, I say anyone that hasn't owned or DD driven a Motronic converted urq or
> > 4kq, will be the ONLY one's that will defend the CIS.  There is just a
> > refinement there that can't be matched by the best state of WX tune.  I
> > still own both, this is more obvious a statement than it might appear.  
> > 
> > Finally, you guys need to really look at the resto-mod market to understand
> > where the market trends are.  Guys that can afford $30k+ urq's (or 50k
> > muscle-cars) don't want to carry tools, work 3mm allens, don't want to have
> > a hot start problem with the valet on a night out in their toy, don't want
> > to be stranded for a flooded urq.  They want to get in the car a drive it
> > like their wife's toyota SUV.  Not borrow the wife's SUV because 'urq
> > happened'.
> > 
> > Performance tuning?  Only an incidental, not primary benefit.  I will say
> > this, a 2.5bar chipped 3B with a k24 is what I DD in my 4kq.  Without
> > question, it could have 'more', but the torque and the response and
> > refinement of this setup, is really tough to beat.
> > 
> > There is nothing simple about CIS sitting on the side of the road with no
> > tools, and pissed off passengers.  BTDT2.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Scott J
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
> Stephen H.R.
> shr42 at msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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