[urq] AAN or 3B swap

Mon Feb 3 10:09:46 PST 2014

It all depends on what you're starting with. I am not suggesting you go
this route if you have a 3B and you're happy with it. However, if you're
starting with an AAN, I'd argue it's cheaper and easier to swap in a SQ
style intake ($950 from 034-
http://store.034motorsport.com/034efi-high-output-intake-manifold-20655.html)
than to swap everything over to 3B/ADU/ABY style intake, because so
many
other parts need to be changed to suit (water manifold, vacuum, cruise,
etc.) BTDT many years ago- I bought all the big RS2 bits back when they
were relatively cheap from Germaly (intake & exhaust manifolds, valve
cover, oil pan) and sold them off when I decided it would be far cheaper
and easier overall to just buy an ABY or ADU.than completely convert an AAN.

Steve

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Mike Sylvester <mike at urq20v.com> wrote:

> When doing the conversion it becomes an issue of cost.
> Sure SQ intake routing may be a more sound solution, but what are you
> willing to pay for the minimal gain.
> The 3B parts are bolt on and relatively inexpensive.If the AAN intake
> worked that world be nice but it doesn't. A intake that has a front
> mounted throttle body that will work in the small body car will be a
> custom part.
>
> Mike
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [urq] AAN or 3B swap
> > From: Steve Mills <s.b.mills at gmail.com>
> > Date: Mon, February 03, 2014 8:51 am
> > To: Martin Pajak <martin at quattro.ca>
> > Cc: "urq at audifans.com" <urq at audifans.com>
> >
> >
> > Again, I'm not saying the increased intake tract length is a huge
> problem. However, the engineer in me hates the 3B/ABY/ADU packaging both in
> terms of intake tract length/volume and how the compressed charge is routed
> back over to the hot side and passed over the exhaust manifold only to be
> rerouted around the back of the engine to the cold side. Like most designs,
> I'm sure the tradeoffs were made for sound reasons, but my preferred
> solution is still the SQ-style intake manifold, which eliminates both
> issues.
> >
> > Doesn't mean the 3B and it's variants won't run great and transform an
> UrQ- it's just my preference.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > On Feb 3, 2014, at 7:55 AM, "Martin Pajak" <martin at quattro.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > For what its worth my old '85 with 3B and a huge 944 turbo intercooler
> had
> > > no issues building instant boost (with stock K24).
> > > Throttle responce was excellent as well.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > > Martin Pajak
> > >
> > > http://www.quattro.ca
> > >
> > > 1981 VW Scirocco, all original
> > > 1982 Audi Ur-quattro, SQ project
> > > 1983 Audi 80 quattro, Euro 2-Tür
> > > 1993 Audi 90 CS quattro, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
> > > 1993 Audi 80 quattro Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
> > > 1994 Audi S2 Avant, stock
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: urq-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:urq-bounces at audifans.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of David Glubrecht
> > > Sent: 3-Feb-14 00:36
> > > To: s.b.mills at gmail.com
> > > Cc: urq at audifans.com
> > > Subject: Re: [urq] AAN or 3B swap
> > >
> > > That is what I thought the concern was, but being as how a turbo is
> not a
> > > positive displacement devise, I don't see how it could have much of an
> > > effect.  I suppose it could affect where the turbo is in the
> compressor map
> > > while spooling up, but in practice (in an extreme case) Huge volume
> and old
> > > school turbo motor (MC) that is known to have significant lag, I do
> not see
> > > any effect.   I mean this vehicle really does have about the same post
> > > compressor intake volume as a remote mount turbo.
> > > Perhaps it might have a noticeable effect on a newer motor with minimal
> > > lag.
> > >
> > > This is somewhat academic, as I can't/won't change this vehicle and
> will try
> > > to minimize the 3B UrQ anyway.
> > > But I do want to understand the significance of this.
> > >
> > >
> > >  David Glubrecht
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Intake tract length is a major factor in turbo lag. The turbo has to
> work to
> > > compress and maintain pressure on the intake volume, and the larger it
> is
> > > the longer it takes. It's not the end of the world, but it's desirable
> to
> > > minimize it.
> > > On Feb 2, 2014, at 4:13 PM, David Glubrecht <daveglu at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Another 3B swap here.  Will definitely be doing the 3B as I have two of
> > > those and no AAN's.
> > > I also plan on going stand alone with the adaptronics 1280 and this
> will run
> > > COP.
> > > While I feel free and able to modify mostly anything I want, intake
> track
> > > length is only a concern due to room constraints.
> > > I was concerned a little on my last project about intake track length
> > > (volume) as it is very long/large.
> > > This is a MC running CIS with 3' cis to turbo, 2' turbo to intercooler,
> > > large intercooler, 3.5' intercooler to intake. All plumbing is ~2.75id.
> > > I have not seen anything with this much post airflow meter volume and
> was
> > > concerned, but I have not noticed any adverse effects.
> > > What is the concern with intake volume?
> > >
> > >
> > >  David Glubrecht
> > >
> > >
> > >> I do believe the AAN is a better engine, but the AAN can require a
> lot of
> > > fabrication to install. I personally would go with an ABY (late S3) or
> ADU
> > > (RS2) sourced from Europe, or installing an SQ style intake on the AAN
> that
> > > moves the throttle body to the front of the engine. This should
> minimize the
> > > required modifications and also minimize the length of the intake path.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Audifans urq mailing list
> > > Manage your list connection:
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> > >
> > > Pictures/Polls/Database at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/urquattro/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3684/7054 - Release Date:
> 02/02/14
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Audifans urq mailing list
> > > Manage your list connection:
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> > >
> > > Pictures/Polls/Database at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/urquattro/
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Audifans urq mailing list
> > Manage your list connection:
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> > http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
> >
> > Pictures/Polls/Database at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/urquattro/
>