[Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
Clive Young
cyoung1661 at rogers.com
Tue Feb 15 11:05:38 EST 2005
Okay so here we are ...
I did everything we discussed yesterday. Even after I overfilled the
reservoir until coolant was pouring out of the upper and lower bleed screw I
still had only luke warm air at best when I stopped at a light , and it was
+5C out yesterday , it should have been belting out the heat. So at least i
know I don't have an air bubble disrupting flow. I also know my heater core
is clear as a bell and I have a new Tstat and pump in it . I think I am
going to pull the engine apart in the spring and investigate further.
A side note however, i got home rom playing hockey last night in my Caravan
( 4.0litre engine ) and sure enough it was belting out the heat even at
idle. I turned off the engine but left the igntion on and sure enough the
heat dropped at the same rate as it does as the audi at idle . Of course
there is no water pump running so this is to be expected, but it does tell
me my suspcions ae correct and it is flow .
As an interesting exercise if any of you guys are running your cars with the
heater on try doing the same . ( I can't with the audi as I am geting no
heat at idle anyway.) My suspicion is that your heat will die within about
1-2 minutes to a luke warm - cool te,p. and you will have a feel of my
symptom. I know Tom you said it flow all along. I don't know if flushing my
system will help, But may be a worth while investment before pulling the
engine to bits .
Anyone know if you have to take the heater core return tube off to get to
the valley pan gesket ( it is basically a steel pipe ) ? If i have to go
that far in I may as well do it all . It will give me a chance to check all
the seals. I imagine I can get some sort of gasket set !!
i'll keep you guys up to date.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Christiansen" <tomchr at ee.washington.edu>
To: "Clive Young" <cyoung1661 at rogers.com>; "Nathan White"
<natwhite at mnsi.net>
Cc: "Audi list" <v6-12v at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> "Job" should really be a four-letter word... ;-)
>
> Tom
>
> At 11:43 AM 2/14/2005, Clive Young wrote:
> >Gee you would think we didn't have jobs !!!!
> >
> >anyway I tried one last thing Tom eluded to. I filled the reservoir
untill
> >fluid started to come out of the upper bleed screw, it means REALLY
> >overfilling the reservoir ( up to the bottom of the threaded part for the
> >cap ) but sure enough fluid comes out of the bleed screw. I am warming
the
> >car up as we speak and while it is overfull I let some coolant out of the
> >bleed screw. no air but lots of fluid. So now of course it is running all
> >over my shoes as the excess comes out of the expansion tank. .... maybe
this
> >is the way I am suppose to do it ... If your shoes are dry you are doing
it
> >wrong?
> > As far as the bleed screw goes I had the same theory about the leak
> >back. (thats how I broke it ) just a little tighter !!!.. I ended up
> >gettinga M6 plastic slot head screw for keeping on plates and it worked
> >great full seal.
> >
> >Anyway I will let you guys know with my thermal study when i get my
thermal
> >guage back from the calibrators.
> >
> >Thanks Guys
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tom Christiansen" <tomchr at ee.washington.edu>
> >To: "Clive Young" <cyoung1661 at rogers.com>; "Nathan White"
> ><natwhite at mnsi.net>
> >Cc: "Audi list" <v6-12v at audifans.com>
> >Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:19 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> >
> >
> > > Clive,
> > >
> > > You mentioned that you broke the bleed by the firewall (like everyone
else
> > > did). Could it be that it doesn't seal right when cold and sucks air
in?
> > > I'd try gooping it up with water pump sealant or something
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > >Mine is a manual heating system. I do think it is a air gap also ,
but I
> > > >think it keeps coming back .. I have completely flushed the system
> >several
> > > >times . If I open the bleeder in the heater hose until warm coolant
flows
> > > >out and I cap it off. The heater core is perfectly clear,comes out as
> >fast
> > > >as I can push it in with a garden hose, after bleeding it while
warming
> >up,
> > > >i find that the next day when I pressurize the reservoir and open the
> >bleed
> > > >screw, air comes out everytime, and then liquid. .then I close it. I
> >could
> > > >repeat the cycle forever and never seam to get all the air out.
Common
> >sense
> > > >says this is as ound procedure but maybe it isn't ? ----- Original
> > > >Message -----
> > > >From: "Nathan White" <natwhite at mnsi.net>
> > > >To: "Clive Young" <cyoung1661 at rogers.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:30 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The way I see it, at speed, the water pump turns faster, building
more
> > > > > pressure, allowing the coolant to flow easier. At idle, when you
get
> >no
> > > > > heat, the water pump spins the slowest. The only thing I can think
of
> >is
> > > > > a air pocket trapped inside. I have heard the V6 is VERY sensitive
to
> > > > > air in the coolant system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you completely flushed the coolant system?
> > > > >
> > > > > The MAIN bleeder screw is actually that allen head. The other is
> >simply
> > > > > secondary. I used a socket set, with a long extension to reach it.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is also a Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS) that may be causing
> >problems.
> > > > > Usually gives off a check engine light however.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > NW
> > > > >
> > > > > My heat definetely works 100% at idle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Clive Young wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Nathan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been looking all over the net all weekend for that
excellent
> > > >picture
> > > > > >of the cooling system. I finally found something late last night
(
> >not as
> > > > > >good as this one though ) . The problem is that this car has been
> >like
> > > >this
> > > > > >for some time as the previous owner complained of this also. Do
you
> > > >really
> > > > > >think it has an air lock for years ? On the off chance it might
have
> >been
> > > > > >the case i tried to get at the bleed screw and at least see what
> >would
> > > > > >happen.... nice of them to put a sensor bracket right over the
top so
> >you
> > > > > >can't get to it .. and when I eventually did with an allen wrench
,
> > > >forget
> > > > > >it , the thing is welded in there !! So i retreated and figured
any
> >air
> > > > > >would get to the top bleed screw anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >What do you think ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Nathan White" <natwhite at mnsi.net>
> > > > > >To: <V6-12v at audifans.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 6:36 PM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Coolant flow diagram. Notice the second bleed screw on the metal
> >coolant
> > > > > >>pipe, near the egr area. It is a hex screw, be carefull not to
get
> > > > > >>coolant in your face.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/6607/coolpic.jpg
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>NW
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Clive Young wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>Marc
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>I am unsue of what you mean by heating coils , but if you are
> >talking
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >about
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>the heater core it is in an enclosed box that you have to take
the
> > > >centre
> > > > > >>>console off and dashboard out to get to , not to mention
> >discharging
> > > >the
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >AC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>system to boot !
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>An intersting not however. If I am idling and the car runs up
to
> >about
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >95C
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>with heating on full blast blows cold- luke warm. On the
highway
> >with
> > > >the
> > > > > >>>engine cooler at about 80C ( last night it was cold out ,
> >about -10C )
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >The
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>heat is just belting out ! so it tells me I have a problem with
> >rate of
> > > > > >>>delivery of coolant to the core, or I am injesting cold air (
the
> >blend
> > > > > >>>door ) and it is being compensated for at speed. Bot sysytms
look
> >great
> > > > > >>>though and the belend door I can hear snapping oopen and
closed...
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>very strange ...
> > > > > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>From: "The CyberPoet" <thecyberpoet at cyberpoet.net>
> > > > > >>>To: "Clive Young" <cyoung1661 at rogers.com>
> > > > > >>>Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 2:46 AM
> > > > > >>>Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>Did you try cleaning the heating coils yet?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>Cheers
> > > > > >>>>=-= Marc
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>On Saturday, February 12, 2005, at 11:42 PM, Clive Young
wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>last act of a desperate man ....
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>I have only bled it about ... oh i'd say 25 times.... I even
> >broke
> > > >the
> > > > > >>>>>plastic bleed screw...... i was actually amazes I bled it so
many
> > > > > >>>>>times without it breaking.... I would always let it warm up
intil
> > > > > >>>>>fluid came out then sealed it off. I even tried pressurizing
the
> > > > > >>>>>reservoir to force any air up to the bleed screw,that didn't
help
> > > > > >>>>>either ... as I would think I got some air out, but it would
be
> >the
> > > > > >>>>>same result, besides, i think by pressurizing the reservoir I
> >think I
> > > > > >>>>>am injecting air into the sytem via the overflow hose into
the
> >top of
> > > > > >>>>>the rad.
> > > > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>>> From: sub
> > > > > >>>>> To: Clive Young
> > > > > >>>>> Cc: Audi list
> > > > > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:26 AM
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Hmm, it's not that drastic (stopping at the light). I did
have
> >to
> > > > > >>>>>replace my thermostat last year as it broke into 2 separate
> >pices.
> > > > > >>>>>However when that happened I was getting engine codes and
engine
> > > > > >>>>>warning light after about 5 to 10 min of driving, that the
> >engine
> > > >was
> > > > > >>>>>not warming up on time.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Did you try to bleed the coolant pipes that go through the
> >firewall
> > > > > >>>>>into the cabin ? When I replaced my thermostat I had to
drain
> >the
> > > > > >>>>>coolant afterwards I had to bring the engine up to temp and
try
> >to
> > > > > >>>>>bleed the system, I did that 2 or 3 times before the heater
> >started
> > > > > >>>>>working, even though my coolant temp gage showed 90c.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> hope this helps
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Clive Young wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>Thanks that is really good info .
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>If you stop the car and let it idle again does the heat drop
off
> > > > > >>>>>again. ?
> > > > > >>>>>Mine is fine while I am driving but if I stop at a light , by
the
> > > >time
> > > > > >>>>>it
> > > > > >>>>>goes green again the air is luke warm at best , sometimes
down
> >right
> > > > > >>>>>cool !
> > > > > >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>>>From: "sub" <subscriptions at globalape.com>
> > > > > >>>>>To: "Clive Young" <cyoung1661 at rogers.com>
> > > > > >>>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 11:19 PM
> > > > > >>>>>Subject: [Bulk] Re: [V6-12v] no heat at idle .
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Clive, this engine is hard to get hot in sub 0 c temp's.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>My 1993 90CSQ, after sitting in the garage (-5c) for 15 min
> >starts
> > > > > >>>>>blowing semi warm air (no temp probe to test it), if I drive
it
> >it
> > > > > >>>>>becomes warmer faster, but to get it really hot you have to
drive
> >it
> > > > > >>>>>really hard. ex: empty parking lot after fresh powder =
lot's of
> > > > > >>>>>Quattro fun :-))
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>Clive Young wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Well Finally I must say I feel totally defeated. I have
tried
> > > > > >>>>>everything
> > > > > >>>>> I can think of and it just won't produce decent heat at
> >idle. I
> > > > > >>>>>just have
> > > > > >>>>>one or two last few questions before I put the nail in the
> >coffin.
> > > > > >>>>> Is there anyone right now that has there car pumping out
decent
> >heat
> > > > > >>>>>at
> > > > > >>>>> idle with an ambiet outside of zero to minus 10 celcius
, if
> > > > > >>>>>anyone can
> > > > > >>>>>stick a thermal probe in the heater vent I would aprreciate
it.
> >At
> > > > > >>>>>least
> > > > > >>>>>that would tell me if is suppose to work.
> > > > > >>>>> The P.O. told me he took the car to AUDI for the same reason
,
> >they
> > > > > >>>>>put
> > > > > >>>>> a thermostat in it , flushed the system, charged him a
whack
> >of
> > > > > >>>>>money but
> > > > > >>>>>still didn't fix it. so what chance do I have .. those guys
do
> >this
> > > > > >>>>>for a
> > > > > >>>>>living !
> > > > > >>>>> Oh well , I have just had enough......
> > > > > >>>>>_______________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>V6-12v mailing list
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> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
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