[V8] Re: V8 Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8

[dsaad at icehouse.net]

I am with you on all counts Roger. Of course you can improve on the factory
system but for too many people that just means adding a stupid big sub woofer
and ridicules amount of ear drum shattering power.
And like you said, most new aftermarket heads I have seen push the "screen
savers" (on a LCD? HUH?) more than real specs anymore and look like video games.
If I had better hi-end hearing I could see adding a good mid-hi range speaker to
the dash openings. I think that would be easy and help a lot. I also find the
bass to be a little muddy - but the cure involves way more work and money than I
am willing to dump into this car. This sort of improvement never adds much to
the resale value of the car and can even lower it.

Case in point:
I remember a case (maybe 1982?) where a guy with a big Benz came into our shop
(before I started work there) because his Becker stereo was broken. They told
him it was not possible to fix, he believed them and bought a total POS Clarion
that was incapable of ejecting a tape because the OEM radio was mounted nearly
vertical. It also looked terrible - the Becker was an integral part of the dash.
I have no idea why they did this to him - he was a millionair then and would
have paid whatever it took to get the Becker repaired or replaced.

It turns out this guy was a friends dad. I found the radio sitting on the shelf,
repaired it with a toothpick and called him up to see if he wanted it that way
for just a few dollars or if he wanted me to order a new part. When he got
through stuffing the Clarion down the salesmans throat, I re-installed his
Becker and it lasted as long as the car did with the toothpick repair.
(and I got a nice job offer from him. Probably shoulda taken it...)

Dave





Quoting "Roger M. Woodbury" <rmwoodbury at downeast.net>:

>   > You could not make a worse choice IMO about your stereo design. I have
> yet to be
> > in a car with a sub woofer that sounds good to everyone in the car. The
> > Bose
> > system is a reasonable and sane design that allows everyone to hear good
> > sound
> > without blasting the rear seat with un-comfortable or even dangerous
> > levels of
> > sound pressure. Sure there is "better" sound available but it quickly gets
> > to be
> > impractical for a variety of reasons.
> > Not to mention that you have to give up huge amounts of trunk space for
> > speaker
> > enclosures and amps and such. Add to that the in-ability to listen to the
> > stereo
> > with the motor turned off for any length of time without draining the
> > battery.
>
> Nope.  You misunderstand what I would do, and it is probably my use of the
> terminology.  I would use a non-directional bass through crossovers and
> separate amp located in the rear, most probably the original rear speaker
> enclosures.  This is NOT a boom box taking up space in the trunk, nor would
> the amplifiers take up usable room elsewhere.  The purpose is not to make
> the car leap tall buildings in a single 10,000 hz thump, but to provide the
> bass missing from the front speakers.  The overall effect will be true
> symphonic sound, with the orchestra in front of the two front seat
> passengers.  The bass is merely a part of the whole, and compliments not
> dominates the sound.  Thus huge speakers and speaker enclosures are not
> necessary.
>
> In addition, we seldom if ever have more than just two people in the car,
> and when we do have more than that, it is for short distance where
> conversation is the rule, not music listening.
> >
>  > .
> > As a former stereo installer, I can tell you that the factory head unit in
> > almost any car is far better than most aftermarket junk. They are
> > repairable and
> > replaceable for many years after the car is built. Aftermarket units are
> > typically junk if they have a problem after the short warranty runs out.
>
> I have no argument with the overall quality of the OEM head units,
> especially as used in most high end cars.  Certainly from the standpoint of
> longevity, they are normally superior to all but perhaps the best of the
> "high end" aftermarket unit.  However, the Blaupunkt system in my '87
> Porsche 928S4 was dead when I bought it at eight years old (61,000 miles and
> NO Florida or hot life experience), and the Audi/Bose head unit in my wife's
> '94 Audi failed at seven years and 39,000 miles after living all those years
> and miles in Kansas City.  To be sure, the failure of that radio was limited
> to the volume control knob, but it failed about 1/3 into the first state of
> a 3500 mile road trip, and repairing it (which would have been preferable to
> replacement) was not an option.  Hence the replacement with the Nakamichi,
> which hopefully will last longer than the OEM head unit.
>
> In a previous life, my wife complained that the bass sound in her then brand
> new Audi 5000S Avant was lacking.  While she was away, I took the car took
> the car to a stereo shop and had them replace the rear speakers with larger
> ones, install a crossover and new amp, while retaining the OEM head unit.
> The results were amazing, and when she returned and drove the car the
> startled look on her face when she first listened to Barbra Streisand's
> "Somewhere" made the $450 in 1985 dollars money well spent.
>
>
> > Speakers can often be improved for sound quality but they rarely last as
> > long as
> > OEM - because OEM designs better take into account real world problems
> > like
> > dust, moisture, sun, etc.
>
> I flat don't believe this.  Aside from longevity, I doubt that OEM systems
> are more than compromises.  The factory cd player in my Chevy truck is
> excellent, but then the overall noise level in the truck is such that it is
> hard to really hear well at normal highway speeds over any surface.  The
> Ford has an excellent radio and maybe the cassette player works, but I have
> never tried it.  The radio pulls in signals fairly well, but with
> inconsistent volume which is probably due to the age of the radio and the
> fact that the previous owner replaced the OEM radio antenna with a stubby
> rubber one.  But it does work, which is all that I want.  Now having said
> that I "flat don't believe".....I fully agree that there is an enormous
> amount of pure rubbish being sold on the aftermarket in the guise of "high
> end" stereo.  I have replaced dead head units in several cars using Alpine
> cd receivers.  They were really outstanding, and the dealer who sold them to
> me was even able to change the color on one of the units to nearly match the
> color in the car.  Seems that Alpine used to provide colored capsules that
> could be put over the lights in the face units to match the interior.  They
> did this, so I was told, so that their units would appear the same as BMW
> and a couple of other cars.  Now, Alpine units all look like jukeboxes from
> a cheap, New Orleans whore house, and I wonder if the quality of the product
> inside the box has as much class.
>
> I think that spending a LOT of money on auto stereo systems is a total
> waste.  There are so many ambient sounds inside an automobile that have
> nothing to do with sound reproduction, that unless the car is sitting still
> in the middle of a sound room built in the middle of a desert, however good
> the accoustical performance of the head unit, the tape or cd player and
> speakers really is, will be indiscernable to the human ear.
>
> > You can add lots of power too - but the usual result is a system that
> > might
> > sound OK to the driver but is punishing and these days downright dangerous
> > to
> > the rest of the passengers (driver included).
>
>
> Of course.  POWER is not the solution.  Proper symphonic sound distribution
> is what I would want to gain, and that requires only complimentary
> non-directional bass from somewhere in the car.  The most logical place is
> in the rear, and huge amplification is not necessary.  In fact, in my wife's
> car the head unit has preamp output as well as amplifier output which is how
> the rear speakers work with the aftermarket front speakers...preamp out goes
> to the rear Bose speakers.  But this same head unit would power both front
> and rear speakers and then balance and fade would be equal and simplified.
>
> > I say dump the money into a top notch home stereo where your inventment
> > will
> > mean something.
>
> Along about the dawn of time I bought a new system for home.  All of that
> equipment was McIntosh.  I have not had a single second of thought given to
> replacing any of the pieces.  In fact, I bought a nearly identical system
> recently and am using the preamp from that system while I get the my
> original preamp retuned.  My speakers are interesting things called Triads,
> and I have thought from time to time that a bigger powered subwoofer would
> be neat, but not neat enough for me to spend more money on something that
> works really well for us in the space that we have for listening.  We
> actually listen quite a lot, and it is a pretty good thing that the nearest
> neighbor is 300 feet away through the woods.....
>
> Oh, yes.  And I bought this Mac stuff used from the dealer in Portland.
> They can repair it, but it means that I have to truck the stuff 150 miles
> for a qualified repair shop.  I am very glad that I didn't buy any of this
> stuff new.  What I bought is currently bringing what I paid for it on eBay.
> That's as close to an "investment" that this stuff will ever get.
>
> Bear in mind that my listening needs are very, very simple.  I listen to
> classical music almost to the exclusion of anything else.  Here in Maine
> there is ONE classical music station and it is pretty much possible to
> listen to that one station all along the coast.  However, 35 miles inland,
> there is pretty much of anything else aside from Country and Maine Public
> Radio, which is nearly entirely talk and whining talk at that.  Thus, if I
> can listen to the classical station most of the time, I'm happy, and if I
> can't, then there is little wrong with the roof open and the sound of the
> Maine wilderness.
>
> >> Roger
>
>
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