[V8] What a chintzy way to get ahead,
or I absolutely HATE it when this happens.....
Roger M. Woodbury
rmwoodbury at downeast.net
Thu Jan 29 09:42:42 EST 2004
Hi All: This is turning into a long thread, which I never thought might
happen to a rather rudimentary tale of the upkeep and maintenance issues of
one of these fantastic cars. I had another "visitation" with the subject
car yesterday, having been out of town both yesterday and Tuesday. The
mechanic had said that he was going to get right into pulling the heads off
yesterday, and he was just starting when I walked in the door just before
closing time. He has a VERY bad cold and really didn't want to touch the
car with the other guy working there, the phone ringing and the doors
opening and closing. Anyway, we had a long far ranging talk while he worked
removing the wiring harness, cooling fans, and so forth, before he shut down
for the night to rest...hopefully to hit it hard this morning.
Anyway, we talked a bit about maintenance, basic and otherwise on cars in
general. One of his clients has a fairly new Subaru (Subarus are VERY big
here, as there is a very aggressive dealer in Ellsworth). Anyway, this
Subaru has toasted heads. The reason is that the Subaru needs to have its
oil changed just like other cars, and this owner (she's the wife in a three
car family), has "forgotten" to change the oil save for twice in about
35,000 miles. My mechanic has said that he has often heard over the years
the comment that changing the oil every so and so miles gets "so expensive".
Whether or not that's what this Subarulady thought (I suspect that she
didnt' think about "the car" at all), the cost of this top end will blow
past $1500 anyway. In a spasm of absolute non-think, she asked if she ought
to just trade the car for a new one. (My mechanic said that if she decided
to do that, he would like to buy her car from her.....).
I am going to compile a list of cars that I have owned. Seems like an
intriguing project for today, as on this date, I mark the completion of my
sixth decade of generally foolin' around on this planet. I'll let you know
the total when I get it done....I THINK I can still remember them all, but
ya never know!
So, over the years, I have learned one or two things about the care, feeding
of and general misery of automobile ownership. Of the many lessons, is that
a car is never, NEVER, NEVER an investment. The ONLY time that a motor
vehicle even begins to approach the concept of REAL value is if it is
legitimately used as a business expense and can be depreciated. My 1987
Mercedes 190D Turbo was such a case, as were the previous three cars....1985
Mercedes 190D, 1983 BMW 318i, 1982, 1982 Audi Coupe, 1979 BMW 320i, and oh
yes, I almost forgot: 1979 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Coupe (dubbed the
"Pimpmobile" by my friends). I was driving nearly 50,000 miles in service
to my insurance clients and this car was my primary means of transportation,
and not the only car in the house. Thus it was depreciable on the basis of
business miles.
The second "rule" that I have learned was taught to me by my mother, when I
was urging her to buy one car of another, which I did regularly beginning
when I was about two. She told me over and over again (and she was right):
"Roger, there is ALWAYS another car!".
There has been some talk about the cost of ownership concerning these cars,
so I thought I would comment on that this morning. As unpleasant as it
seems going along, the Truth, as I understand it, is that it is ALWAYS
cheaper to fix and maintain an older car than to buy a new one. In 1997, I
bought a 1989 Audi 200 Quattro wagon from a dealer in Minneapolis. I called
them on a whim, because their ad in the Quattro Club newsletter said that
they had an S6 Avant, and I just HAD to see if they did and how much it
might cost. My old 5000CS Quattro wagon was about to suffer terminal TES
and I had donated it to the transportation museum for their auction the
previous fall. (TED: Tired Engine Syndrome. Occurred at 220,000 miles or
so....).
What the dealership had was a recently turned in, '89 Quattro Avant with
61,000 miles. They had sold the car when new, and had serviced it since
then. The car had been owned by some people who had inherited a LOT of
money after owning the car for a year or so, and every winter the car lived
in a heated garage, while the owners lived in the Florida keys. I bought
the car sight unseen, and flew out to Minneapolis to drive it back. I paid
$11,000 for the car.
Two and a half years ago, I sold the car for $5500. It had 130,000 miles on
it, and looked (still) like new. I had used the car pretty hard, carring
everthing imaginable to and from my various jobs. I buy, restore and sell
interesting old houses, and have some property to maintain as well, and
during the Great Ice Storm, the car went at least thirty miles a day from
here to the Inn in Blue Hill carrying bags of rock salt for the sidewalks.
(The car felt very stable with ten, 50 pound bags of rocksalt over the rear
wheels, ice or no ice. But I digress).
In computing the final cost per mile of that car, I disregarded the cost of
tires, gasoline, oil, and insurance as those costs would appear for any
vehicle, at pretty much the same rate....well, unless you drive your vintage
Hemi Dodge Coronet sixty miles to work and back every day. At 110,000 miles
a pin in the shifter mechanism in the transmission failed, and I had to
rebuild the transmission, at a cost of $1800. That was the curve breaker,
and made the final cost per mile for driving the car, just a tad under ten
cents per mile for maintenance.
The replacement for that car is a 1994 Audi 100CS Avant Quattro that had
39,000 miles on it when I picked it up at the dealer in Kansas City two and
a half years ago. That is my wife's car, and it is probably going to be as
good as anything I have ever owned, and we are servicing it the same way as
always: oil changes every 5000 miles, and whatever else the schedule calls
for. With 75,000 miles on it right now, we did the major service a year ago
(at the Audi dealer !). My mechanic now, the independent nearby, charges
$45 per hour labor, so I expect that the cost of this car per mile will play
out pretty much as its predecessor. My wife LOVES this car, so I expect it
to be around a long time.
Now, my V8. Well, I paid around $15,000 for it two and a half years ago. I
bought it at the big Audi dealer in Conshohoken, Pennsylvania. They knew
the car and could certify that the BIG service had been done. It had 61,000
miles on it at the time, and now has 90,000 miles just about. Now, this is
a little different cat than the other cars. First of all, it had a sticker
price pushing past $60,000 in 1993, and it was in truth, a very limited
production automobile. The V8 Quattro is not really "just" a 200 with a
different nose and a big V8 engine. Not all parts save the engine and
transmission are interchangable with other Type 44 cars. And also, with 300
horspower hauling your ass along, there will be some other stressses than if
there are half that much. At the end of the day, there is no such a thing as
a "free ride", so I expected the care and feeding of the V8 to be a notch
higher than, say a new, Ford Taurus.
As of this date, I have put $3600 into the car in terms of maintenance items
since I bought it. I have also had the exterior of the car restored
($1500). These items include front control arms, sway bar bushings, rear
brake pads, cylinder head "o" rings for a coolant leak, driver's door window
regulator, front and rear brake rotors, brake lines, and four wheel
allignment along with tie rods and brackets. Not included here is the cost
of new tires bought just prior to the allignment. All of the "heavy" work,
was done at the Authorized dealer, and all of it is basically wear and tear
for a car of this type at around 75,000 miles.
Now the current work being done began as a search for an oil leak. It's
pretty necessary to chase these things down at some point, otherwise you
just get an oily and smelly mess. Seals fail sooner or later, most likely.
Unpleasant, but I consider it important. Whad I didn't expect was that the
oil leak would not be a sending unit, which I originally suspected, but
something that might be far worse. But once in the job, since it was there,
the slightly leaking hydraulic pump "should" be done; and once off, the
timing belt "should" be changed, and once off, the water pump "might as
well" be renewed, and "gee, do you think that pulley is a tad loose? Well,
we're THERE, so better now, than in thirty thousand more miles....and so on.
Obviously, with this service, the cost per mile will be REALLY high, based
on what I paid for the car, and what I will have put into the car in terms
of maintenance parts and labor to date.
But let's look at it differently. Let's look at it from the stand point of
what I bought, why I bought it and what the options were.
First of all, I wanted either a 1993 or a 1994 V8 Quattro. I wanted either
this Cayenne Metallic, Black or possibly green. I was willing to travel
anywhere in the eastern half of the country to find it, and later, I decided
that it might mean that I would have to go as far as the west coast. I
would not buy a car from a used car dealer, unless they were a part of an
Audi franchise, and I would not consider buying a car that had had more than
two owners, now would I buy from a private party unless they could document
EVERY service performed on the car with actual shop work orders.
As you know, there less than 170 '93s and less than 30 '94s. I searched for
a year. I missed two pretty good sounding cars by two days once, and two
weeks another time. In the end, the car I bought was cosmetically less than
perfect, but all it needed when I bought it was rear sway bar bushings and
rear brake pads, half the cost of which was paid by the selling dealer after
I got it up here. The car would need paint, that I knew when I bought it,
and now that's done.
I am not going to be silly and suggest that it makes sense to compare this
car and a 2001 Toyota Camry, bought new. While it might be tempting, as
they are about the same size, and while considering the carrying charges of
a $30,000 car with one that cost one half that much, plus the added cost of
excise tax, insurance premiums, sales tax and so forth, the total would be
really interesting, the truth is that I WANTED a V8 Quattro, and I didn't
want a Toyota Camry.
The only true comparison, I think, it to compare buying this '93 V8 with
something else in the same general class. Considering where I live, the ONLY
option for me, at this level, might be an Audi A6 V8. Had I bought one of
them when they were first available, the sticker price would have been
around $50,000. It would have had to be a new car. Now, I am not able,
financiall or philosophically to pay $50,000 for a mere car, in cash. So,
let's say, I put down what I paid for the V8 Quattro, which was around
$15,000. Maintenance would have been zero to date, although I would have
had to put tires on, of course.
Here's what those numbers look like:
Net purchase price for finance: $23,890. (This is the
accumulation of 32 monthly installments of $746.56, which is the note
payment on a
$35,000 loan at 7% simple interest for 48 months). Remember: $15,000 has
already been put down
on the new car.
Four year note @ 7% 3,890 (this is the
cost of $35,000 at 7% simple interest times the number of months that I have
owned the V8)
This isn't an exact portrayal of the cost of an auto loan, but it is close
enough.)
Sales tax: (5.5%) $2750 1,833 (amortize the
sales tax over the 32 months that this car would have been owned at this
point).
Excise tax estimated **** I dunno.
The V8 excise tax is around $160 annually, so I expect that a new A6 4.2
would two to
three times that much to date, as the State depreciates the excise taxes as
the car ages.
Insurance 1,000 This
is a guestimate. My guess is that the difference in the cost of collision
and comprehensive
insurance between an '02 A6 4.2 and a '93 V8 Quattro, would have been a
grand. The vehicle
rating symbols would probably be the same or close, so only the higher value
of the new car would
be a factor. Liability insurance costs would be the same.
Sooooo. Here is a cash flow summary of these two vehicles, hypothetically,
to date. I am including an estimate for the current work on the '93 V8, at
$2400, which I doubt that it will be:
1993 V8 Quattro: Purchased: $15,000
2002 A6 4.2 $38,890. (paid to date)
Maintenance: 6,000
(Zero maintenance)
Sales
Tax: 825* Sales tax 1,833
(so far in the loan repayment)
Excise
tax: 480 Insurance 1,000
(more than the V8 over 32 months)
Totals:
$22,205 $41,723.
(*I am lumping the whole sales tax into the current figures for the V8,
although I am apportioning the sales tax for the A6 because the V8 is owned
outright now, and the A6 is still being financed).
Yes, I am not considering any residual value of either of these cars. That
would really be an apples/oranges comparison. This little graphic only
shows what the cash flow cost is, and takes nothing else into consideration.
The V8 will likely cost more over the next six years (assuming both cars are
kept that long), and by the end of the four year note, it is probable that
the A6 4.2 will need to have a lot of the same items repaired that have
already been repaired/replaced on the V8 Quattro. Assume that both cars
have accumulated 30,000 miles of service at this point.
Now another question is IF I could carry the A6, at $750 or so a month,
would I. The answer is simply, NO. I don't WANT one of those things at any
price, and wouldn't buy one....now, if the question is an S6 (Avant)....but
that calculation is entirely different, and MUCH steeper.
But what I have found to be really interesting to me, is that the cost of
labor to date, and guestimating what this most recent labor cost will be, is
around $2500 over almost three years.
And the final question to all of this: Is the V8 expensive? AM I putting a
lot of money into this car? And I believe that the answer is: Compared to
what? A comparable NEW Audi? No. Compared to doing my own work? No,
because my days of wrenching my own cars ended when I sold the TR3.
Compared to a Toyota Camry? If you need to ask THAT question you don't
belong on this list.
A year from now, I will have around 112,000 miles on the V8, assuming that I
keep it in service. I really plan to keep it, although, as I have said, I
"might" sell it.
These numbers will be interesting with another twenty thousand miles on the
car. I am starting an archive....we'll check next January.
Roger
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