[V8] Re: OEM Filters

[jpb3]

Scott,
Ummm..... I hope you design these filters b/c you know way too much about
this subject.......interesting reading though!

John b

PS.. I am using a K&N in the V8.  I have used them in all of my motorcycles
so I figured I would get one for the car.  I'm not the most scientific
person, but I grew up on a farm and still live close to it.  We still run
couple of tractors, gas and diesel, that have been around since my
grandfather bought them.  They have the old foam and oil type filters, which
is essentially what a K&N is, and they are still chugging along.  Were
talking thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of hours on these engines.
Sure they have had an overhaul or two but what do you expect.  Dust is the
name of the game on a farm, dirt is everywhere, and the oil/foam filter did
it's job.   The K&N flows more air and sounds better under full throttle, if
the side effect is that I let a 10 micron particle in my motor Vs. a  4
micron then so be it.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S_Matus" <scott_matus at yahoo.com>
To: <V8 at audifans.com>
Cc: <QuickAudi at aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 2:47 PM
Subject: [V8] Re: OEM Filters


> I would have to agree with you about you findings with your filter.
Visually!
>
> What is the silicon measurement of you oil? Road dirt is mostly silicon in
nature. I would guess that it is higher than 10-15 PPM.  The only way to
emperically determine if you are not harming your engine would to get 2 oil
analysis reports from your car.  Actually there is another way to check this
out, but you would have to tear down your engine to make measurements.  Pull
one oil sample from the vehicle with clean oil, and the other oil sample
after you run the "Oklahoma Baja". Assuming that the engine is sound and
free from any oil related wear.
>
> You could also perform a Wear Particle Analysis WPA on each oil sample.
WPA is a process where oil is drawn past a filter with an absolute micron
rating.  Subsequent absloute filters are placed in series with decreasing
absolute micron ratings.  Say 20 then 15, then 10, then 5, then 4 . . and so
on.  The contaminant size is determined by which filter size it is captured.
This does not characterize the particles in the oil.  You need to place the
contaminants in a microscope to identify what each of the particles look
like.  There are standard charts and pictures used to compare the particles
against.  WPA will supply a report of the types of particles found in the
engine and the percentage of particles captured by each filter.
>
> I personally want a filter that has a Beta Ratio above 300 (99.667%
efficient) for dirt/contaminants 4 microns or less and a Beta Stability of
300 @ 50 PSID.  It is dificult to get any performance data from any filter
manufacturer. Try asking K&N!  Beta Stability means that the filter will
continue to trap that size contaminant (and larger) up to this pressure
without a catastrophic failure (blow by or media failure).  The passages
between bearings and rotating parts is usually about 10 microns.  That is
why I'm setting the spec to 4 microns, so when two particles pass each other
they are not binding against each other, thus gouging your
bearings/surfaces.  Stability @ 50 PSID, because I do not know an engine
that has more than 30 pounds of boost, you want a safety factor.  You can
place a diferential pressure gauge across you filter to determine what
pressures your engine requires.
>
> I welcome your comments, I can suggest a testing lab if you are not
already using one.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Matus
> 2 '90 V8s
>
> QuickAudi at aol.com wrote:
> Sorry bro, gotta put in my opposite opinion on this one.  I've actually
run a K&N in a very dusty environment.  This summer I was in Oklahoma and
ran down some of their "better" roads.  "Better" roads means these don't
have potholes you can throw a cat into and lose it.  Anyway, dust was the
king this summer, and I ran through a lot of it.  I cleaned out my K&N this
fall.  Results: the top of the filter was black with dirt; below the filter
had no dirt on it at all and my MAF sensor was working fine.  I was
extremely impressed.
>
>
> Joel
> '90 V8q
> '86 5kcstq
>
>
> In a message dated 1/30/04 1:26:39 PM Central Standard Time,
v8-request at audifans.com writes:
>
>
> caution anyone that is considering to use a K&N to think twice.  Unless of
course that you know 100% that your vehicle will never be driven in a dusty
environment. K&N was designed to be used at the track in ideal controlled
conditions, not on the dusty trails of America.
>
>
>
>
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