FW: Re: [V8] re: Tis the season.....

Tue Jan 4 20:51:34 EST 2005

Adam
Z1 Performance
www.z1auto.com
631-863-3820

----- Original Message -----
From: z1sales at z1auto.com
To:  ekellock at gmail.com
Sent: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:50:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [V8] re:  Tis the season.....

Problem is though, unless you have a stated value or agreed to value of the car before hand, you
are largely at their mercy to determine what the car is worth.  Sometimes you'll find this works to
your advantage, other times it doesn't.

Case in point - back in 2001 I had an 00 S2000 that I rolled when I swerved to avoid running over 2
girls who ran across the street.  I ran up on a tree bed in the front of someones yard and over and
over she went.  Car was about 6 months old at this point and had maybe 3500 miles on it.  At first,
I figured I'd get hurt a bit as I had paid ~$5k over sticker in the first place.  That, coupled
with that whole "new car" depreciation thing, as well as the aftermarket parts I had on the car at
the time of the accident (very expensive stereo and some other stuff, none of which I had a rider
for in my policy should have meant a healthy loss right off the bat.

In discussions with Allstate after the accident, I mentioned the stereo stuff I had, and asked if
anything could be done.  They did some pow-wowing and came back to me and said fax them receipts. 
I obliged, and got a call back later the same day to say they would cover up to $2500 (I had about
4 times that into the system, the bul of which was labor costs, but I was thrilled they agreed to
cover any of it).  I was also told that since it was stereo stuff, even though they would add this
$2500 to my total claim amount, I was welcome to remove whatever I wanted from the car, since they
were going to crush it anyway.  I took everything :)

It gets better: imagine my surprise when they came back initially to me (2 days after declaring it
a loss) with a payment offer of sticker.  They said that even though it had been 6-7 months since I
bought the car, there was no depreciated value yet calculated for the car.  I immediately said I'd
take it (duh), and was set to collect my check the following day.  

About 20 minutes before I was set to leave my office to pick the check up from Allstate's claims
office, I get a call from the Allstate rep from the day before.  She said they had done one more
round of research on the car and my claim amount was actually going to be an additional $3000.00. 
Apparantly they had not taken "market conditions: into effect, and found that on a national
average, the cars were selling for $3k more than sticker price according to their research.

Granted, I was a very good customer of Allstate's at the time with 5 cars all under full coverage
by them at the time.  Nevertheless they did not owe me what they ended up paying (though I was
grateful).

Adam
Z1 Performance
www.z1auto.com
631-863-3820

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Kellock
To:  <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:25:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [V8] re:  Tis the season.....

When I have documented proof that several cars in nearly the exact
same condition sold for 12-14 thousand dollars and there are less than
150 such cars in the country, how can a value of 10 thousand dollars
be considerd "more realistic".  Because they have their own special
book?  ACV, whatever.. call it what you will, it's just bs that they
use to screw people out of money.  I didn't total it at an event.
They were clearly not interested in making my loss whole.  At the
time, I could not have replaced it for their initial offer.

I greatly appreciate your wisdom as a previous insider in the
insurance industry and find it very valuable, but your explanation
does not wash with my experience in this case.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger M. Woodbury" <rmwoodbury at downeast.net>
To: <sfevold at wwdb.org>
Cc: <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:49 PM
Subject: [V8] re: Tis the season.....

> There are a couple of things that people need to know about
insurance
> companies and the adjustment process.
>
> First of all, ALL cars are JUST cars to the insurance company.
Generally,
> unless the car is on the insurance company's no-no list, all cars
are
> acceptable, assuming the driver's record and financial circumstances
are
> stable.  At time of loss, ALL cars are JUST cars, and ALL Audi's are
treated
> equally:  old Audis are OLD Audis, period, and if it is only one of
27 for
> that year (such as a '94 V8) it is JUST an OLD Audi, and the rarity
makes no
> difference in its valuation.
>
> Insurance companies do not use the same NADA or Kelly Blue Book that
the
> average person has available.  Their data is MUCH more detailed and
from a
> whole lot of different sources. They rely on what sometimes is
referred to
> as "The Black Book", which is a more detailed reference for
automobiles.
> What we get at the book store or on line is useful information, but
an
> insurance company's data is going to be much stricter and probably
more
> realistic, just as a dealer's wholesale figure is much different
from the
> NADA Guide or the KBB values.
>
> An insurance company is going to try to merely make whole the loss.
The car
> might have been worth a lot to the insured, but the actual cash
value of the
> car is probably much different.  Sometimes insurance adjustment
people have
> a true "hard on" for difficulty.  I had a very hard time getting a
cash
> settlement for my BMW motorcycle which I totalled.  The bike was
repairable,
> but the adjuster for USAA (a contract adjuster, and not a USAA
employee)
> thought he was a Private Investigator like Magnum.  He tried to
bully the
> motorcycle shop into straightening the rear suspension frame and
calling it
> good, despite the fact that the factory manual said that the part
was NOT
> repairable and straightening it would weaken the entire frame and
make the
> bike unstable.  I finally got hold of the Northeast REgion claims
supervisor
> and asked them if they wanted me to ride a bike that was documented
as being
> improperly repaired, and would they welcome the liability from that
> exposure, since it would have been caused directly by their
employee.  In
> the end, they paid me for the bike and totalled it.  But the fact
was that
> had I not spent about twenty years in the commercial insurance
business I
> might not have had the same result.
>
> And another thing that is very important to remember:  coverage is
NOT
> determined by the funny tv ads, the insurance agent selling a
policy, or
> wishful thinking.  Coverage is actually determined AFTER the loss by
the
> claims department.  For any of you hotshots who are rallying, club
racing,
> autocrossing, gymkhana-ing, or going on those "wink-wink" so called,
> "drivers ed" weekends, if you prang your ride you will probably find
that
> your insurance company won't cover the loss and then they will
cancel your
> coverage.
>
> Roger
>
> _______________________________________________
> Audifans V8 mailing list
> Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
> Manage your list connection:
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
> Have an Audi V8 question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/V8
> Have a V8 answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
contributions welcome!

_______________________________________________
Audifans V8 mailing list
Send posts to: mailto:V8 at audifans.com
Manage your list connection: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/v8
Have an Audi V8 question?  Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/V8
Have a V8 answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all contributions welcome!