[V8] Quattro vs Haldex

[qshipq at aol.com]

 Hmm...  The days of DTM v8's dominance aren't that far back, and Nick's comments regarding awd on track seem to conflict with Audi's own 'track record' in BTCC and even Motorola cup wins.  Haldex is a good system, but it's not really awd, it's synchro.  Having driven locker/s, torsen/s and Haldex at the track, my personal preference is in the respective order listed.  An all out track/race car can build any of the above to give the advantage over another, but in the world of street cars on the track, IMO the locked center gives the advantage to predictability.  And, as recently as the Motorola Cup, before Stasis modified the center torsen, the winning S4's just welded the center diff.

The real issue with the Haldex, is the majority of manufacturers are using it as syncrho, when it's designed to be a full time awd coupler.  The good news is that it's possible to modify that Can-bus signal to change the part time design.  In fact, the rally team (former Audi S2 Group A) I service for, is looking hard at a Volvo rally car.  In our consideration of that, we have had several conversations with both Haldex and Volvo, and it appears a modified Haldex signal is relatively simple.

All that said, for an out of the box 300hp machine, the volvo's have a good car there.  Unfortunately too, the availability of mods for it is quite limited, which gives that theatre of tweeks back to Audi and BMW.  And, the miata is a good cheap track car as well, we have a few that run the midwest q-club events.  They are far from the front of the pack, even equalizing drivers, because they lack the advantage of both hp and awd.  That doesn't take away from their fun, it just puts it in perspective.

My own experience comes from building a 5ktq track car (2700lbs, coil overs and big brakes x4), which has demonstrated quite well the potential of the 'big chassis' cars in terms of track performance.  I sat right seat in this car to Randy Probst a few years back, and his comment was the ease of driving the car fast...  Er, and he did.  Walter R himself was known to share this same sentiment back in the 200  WRC rally days as well.

To the v8 specifically, I'm on my 5th (92 4.2 with ABT chip), and find with 255/40 17 wheel tire combo and big reds, it can alpha-dance with a lot of faster cars with personality and ease that defies it's age and heft.  At a fraction of the price of the newer hardware, and still holds it's own quite well in terms of a desired cross country road car in any climate.  Now that the price of them is almost dirt, a track v8 could be good fun....  Hmm.

Misc Wednesday ramblings from a v8 fan....

Scott J
92 v8 Abt chip
84 urq
83 urq track car
94 Landcruiser supercharged
87.5 cgt
86 cgt
85 A6 Avant fwd


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Jager <pjager at telus.net>
To: V8List Fans <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 10:28 pm
Subject: Re: [V8] Quattro vs Haldex


Well a foot of snow here and performance tires on the V70R so grip was a 
problem. All the computers in the world couldn't deal with that, still got 
around though. One annoyance with this S60/V70 series is the turn radius is 
larger so when you're sliding toward say a ditch makes it hard to corral the 
sled.

Jumped in the V8 - have better rubber on it. Because it's mechanically based 
the Audi sure is predictable and works the same forward or reverse too. so 
there's a benefit.

The latest Audi S4 sure turns some impressive lap times, plenty of top gear 
video on it.  2010 looks like more changes to quattro to improve driver 
enjoyment.

The Volvos are not in the same league as the S4 or M3 but with 300 ponies, 
Brembo (porsche) brakes and killer suspension tuning do respectable lap 
times for such practical and comfortable sedan/wagons. On the website 
fastestlaps.com the hottest version of the (miata) MX5 and the Volvo S60R 
are a deadheat, and in Audi TT,  VWGTI territory. also equal to what a 
Porsche 928GTS and Porsche 968 did back in the mid 90's.

The trusty V8 wouldn't be on the same map - spongy suspension and no brakes. 
Doesn't mean it isn't a nice ride though.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NIck Miller" <chance9121 at gmail.com>
To: "Paul Jager" <pjager at telus.net>
Cc: "V8List Fans" <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [V8] Quattro vs Haldex


> I've got to admit though wonderful for adverse weather conditions and day 
> to
> day driving, and nice, secure feeling for the driver, the Audi system is 
> in
> no way great for handling, at least how it sits in the V8.  There is far 
> too
> much weight in front of the front axle to be conducive to good handling
> traits.  There is always the ability to tune out issues like this in the
> suspension, in our case with heavily increased spring rates in the front.
>
> However, out of all the cars I've owned, the rwd Miata is the most sure
> footed and capable car by a mile.  I've never taken any other car onto the
> track, but I can assure you that the Volvo wouldn't stand a chance through
> corners of keeping up with the Miata, even if the V70 were stripped bare 
> to
> actually put it on-par with the weight side.
>
> Understeer/torque steer is a real killer for driver control, and though it
> also can be "tuned out" with proper work, I much prefer having full 
> control
> of the front wheels without physics taking some of that away.
>
> But, at the end of the day, AWD and FWD have their place in any venue 
> other
> than all out dry pavement conditions such as on a racetrack.  As well, the
> overall weight, chassis design, and suspension setup have enormous effects
> on handling characteristics as well, not to mention the type of
> differentials used.