[V8] Gut check....what's it worth

[James]

Roger was on the mark in my opinion.  ...and it is how I feel about my
V8q - I got it for 1000$ in great body shape, reworked all of the
suspension, steering, valve guides, timing belt and associated bits,
spent a small fortune in special tools to do all of it, and know the
car is worth, at best, under 2000$, despite me spending into it way
more...

One thing I thought would be relevant, should you decide to fix the
front end damage, and keep the beauty --er V8, is agreed-value
insurance...

I had a 1968 Saab 96 - nice, fun little car (and I love old Saabs), it
was in good shape, small imperfections, etc.  But I knew that if it
were wrecked, hell, even if I busted the rear glass - it would be
totalled out by traditional insurance... ...at probably a couple of
hundred bucks (at best!)...

I didn't do much looking personally, but I called (and no, this is not
any endorsement, advertisement, etc...) my State Farm agent - and just
asked - "Is there any way to do this...".  They actually agreed to
what I thought it would cost to replace it - with all of the
modifications, work I did to it.  They agreed, and yes, I payed a bit
extra for this, but on the policy - it said it in black and white...

There are companies that specialize in it - so...  I just figured it
would be worth mentioning - since a lot of us are probably in a
similar boat...  A buddy of mine has a 74 IH truck, and has
agreed-value through one of the bigger names (lol - I can't recall it
now!) in agreed-value insurance, and says his premiums are comparable
to the 'regular' insurance...  He put in a lot of work (engine
hoppin', etc, etc.), so it was worth gobs more than any blue book...
Again - he has a beast that has a 'cult following', but the 'masses'
wouldn't care a dime if it went to the scrapyard...

--James Bass

1991 Audi V8q
2002 VW Passat GLS4m
2005 Audi TTq


On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Roger Woodbury
<rmwoodbury at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  I was pondering this yesterday as I was experiencing some quirks with my
> transmission driving along.  If we drop a transmission in either one of our
> Audis I will have a real hard time thinking about either fixing the car or
> just replacing it.
>
> The simple truth is V8's are worth very, very little, and only the most
> perfect of perfect cars with very low miles are worth anything at all.  That
> is the simple blunt truth.  There are very few V8's around with fewer than
> 100,000 miles and one of those, IF perfect will probably not fetch more than
> four or five thousand bucks on the market.
>
> That your car is a factory five speed means absolutely zero now.  Oh, I can
> hear the screams of rage and protest but the truth is that a factory five
> speed Audi V8 is worth only what it is worth to some one who wants a factory
> Audi V8 five speed, OR wants the transmission to yank out for something
> else.  And the truth is that a nearly more than fifteen years old for the
> newest V8 Quattro, there will be very, very few people even interested in
> owning such an old and complicated cars.
>
> The insurance company does not use the Kelly Blue Book that you and I can
> buy in the book store, or review on line. The insurance industry has a lot
> of industry wide data that is published for industry use only, just as banks
> have their own method of establishing value for loan purposes.  In almost
> all cases the value of the used car is vastly less than KBB's optimistic
> retail valuations.
>
> When I was in the insurance agency business the two lines of insurance that
> I liked the least were homeowners and personal auto insurance.  As far as
> personal auto insurance is concerned, there is never a way that people are
> really satisfied with the results of a loss, especially if they have expect
> the car to be "fully covered".  It never is.
>
> But because your car is an "old" Audi with five speed, you have a glimmer of
> hope, and I will suggest that you carefully consider what you want to do,
> what you are willing to do, and what is in the best interest of you and your
> family as you think about the V8's future.
>
> I don't know how many miles you have on the car but I'm going to guess it is
> nearly 150K.  I watch the prices of these cars as best I can since
> eventually I may buy a second car for parts alone, but my best guess is that
> in the real world, IF your car was whole and without significant damage the
> best you would get for it is not more than $4000.  I think that is ALL the
> money, and it wouldn't surprise me if after six months of trying the best
> offer you could get would be something below $3000.
>
> Your car has some serious front end sheet metal work that it needs. I assume
> that the car is not driveable and needing headlight and hood it won't pass
> any inspection probably.  If that is the case then the car is worth $500.
>
> IF someone didn't have to haul it far, and it ran fine other than needing
> the sheetmetal, it might bring a grand.  Frankly I doubt it because there
> are intact V8's around that are never going to be roadworthy but the basic
> pieces are there that make them desirable as parts.
>
> I also believe that the longer you wait to get rid of it hoping for more
> money, the less the car will bring simply because the enthusiast pool for
> these cars is dropping faster than the supply of low mileage cars.  I like
> driving my 20 year old V8 and especially because I know that I won't see
> another one just like it on the road, and if I do, it is cause for
> celebration.  There aren't a lot of us around.
>
> So, what the insurance adjuster will do is look at the car as so many old
> Audi parts. The car to the insurance company is something that will be
> wholesaled out to one of its group of pet recyclers and they already know
> that they will get a few hundred dollars for it best case.  They might offer
> you $2500 for the car as it is, and they might sell it back to you for a
> little less than that.  For an insurance company total loss settlement these
> are pretty small dollars.  It will also make a bit of difference whether
> they use an employee appraiser or an adjuster who is an independent
> contractor who is hired as an appraiser.  This will not be an adjusted loss,
> but an appraisal of the total loss of the car.  They will not negotiate a
> whole lot either.  They know that the car is of limited value in the market.
>
> Strategies?  There are some.
>
> First, go to the nearest Audi dealer and ask the sales manager what they
> would ask for the car BEST CASE at retail, assuming the car is intact, in
> excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition.  Ask the dealer if they will
> give you a simple statement on their letter head stating that value, IF they
> had the car sitting on their lot. Tell them that you need this documentation
> for an insurance settlement.  They will probably give you a valuation that
> is at least what KBB will show in the book at the bookstore.  The key is to
> get it in writing:  make sure that you explain that it is not an appraisal
> of YOUR car, but of the value of your car if you had it on their lot in the
> condition that you describe.
>
> Do this with three other dealers...used car dealers are fine. The object of
> the game is to get at least three written statements that your '91 Audi V8
> FIVE SPEED, in good condition on my lot for delivery to a retail customer is
> worth "X" dollars.
>
> What you will have done is establish the ACTUAL CASH VALUE of your '91 Audi
> in your zip code (VERY important).  This will be very important if you
> negotiate a settlement value with an insurance appraiser/adjuster.
>
> You will need a body shop estimate of the cost to repair the damage to the
> front end.  If you have ONE estimate in writing, then you can take the
> dealers' estimates that you have and subtract the body work estimate and
> that will be the BEST CASE that you can expect to get for the car if you
> surrender title to the insurance company.
>
> My guess is that the magic number will not exceed $2500.00.  The insurance
> company will probably NOT authorize repair but will want to total the car
> out for $1500 worth of damage.  IF they do decide to pay to repair the
> damage, then that brings us to the option of keeping the car, fixed, as a
> driver, OR perhaps trying to sell it later as an intact, running example.
>
> Assuming that the car is mechanically without significant needs, and all
> that really needs to be done is to fix fender, nose and hood for $1500, if
> the car can be repaired and driven and you have interest in continuing to
> have it available to you as a driver, then it is worth whatever it takes to
> keep it. There will likely not be another car like it in your lifetime for
> anywhere near the cost of keeping it.  I like my own car and if I couldn't
> have it any more for whatever reason, I would likely not want anything else
> like it at all.
>
> If all it takes is $1500 to make your car a whole driver for what you will
> have even if you have NO insurance money, its pretty cheap.
>
> Yeah, it won't pull a horse trailer.  And it's a pretty small car to carry
> two adults and three children in, especially for a long trip.  It's a nice
> roomy car for two adults and luggage, and a fair car for four adults and
> luggage.  But it really won't pull horses.  If that is a prime
> consideration, then you may have to "pony" up (I couldn't resist that!) for
> a 1Ton dually diesel.
>
> If you don't have decent storage space for the car, then that is another
> consideration.  Having another car lying about, one that isn't driven every
> day, or is expensive to repair and is seldom driven makes very little sense.
> V8's are lovely cars when working well, but are never going to be
> appreciating value cars like Ferraris.
>
> It all comes down to what the car is worth to you.  If you can afford to
> keep it and use it for chuckles and grins, then getting the cost of fixing
> it out of the insurance company is a great way to make the car whole as a
> driver.
>
> If you sell it as is, you won't get a whole lot, and if you try to sell it
> fixed you won't get a huge amount either.  But once it is fixed and whole
> and running well, you won't get another car as satisfying to drive and enjoy
> unless s you pay a whole lot more.
>
> I think at the end of the day it isn't at all about what these cars are
> worth in cash on the market. It is only about what they are worth as an
> automobile to you as the current owner.  But be forearmed before you deal
> with the insurance company.  I doubt that you will win much, but prepared
> you won't lose either.
>
> I'll look forward to reading how this all turns out.
>
> Roger
>
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