[V8] [s-cars] V8 vs A8 now 3.0 V6

Karl Middlebrooks benzeenprophet at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 24 20:25:10 PST 2010 

I've got an '02 A6 Avant with the 3.0L V-6 that I generally use as my DD. 
It's due for a timing belt change now, with just over 107k miles on it. I've 
had it since about 67k miles, and I don't care for it much, but more for 
personal reasons. I bought the car for a girlfriend....lost the girlfriend, 
kept the car, which all things considered was the best deal.

The engine itself seems to run fine; I cracked the lower oil pan and had to 
switch that out. Was a cheap and easy part to get (just over $100 with 
shipping), and was very easy to install, as well.

Goofy deals with the car that haven't come from anything I've personally 
done:
1) Driver's side window clips broke. Apparently this is pretty common with 
the "pink" clips Audi used. Got a replacement set of the stronger "green" 
clips very cheaply ($30 or so with shipping). I was impressed with how easy 
the A6 door was to take apart and reassemble. None of the potential for "oh, 
crap, I backed that bolt out too far and permanently ruined my armrest" that 
you have with the V8.

2) At some point, the car reverted to its European heritage and displays the 
temperatures in Celsius 95 times out of 100 you start the car. Switch it 
over to Fahrenheit and it'll stay til you shut the car off. Those 5 times 
out of 100 that it displays Fahrenheit from the start, I feel like it's my 
lucky day or something. Not sure if it's indicative of a more serious 
problem somewhere, but it's been like that for a few years. On the upside, I 
can now mentally convert between Celsius and Fahrenheit really easily, which 
was a skill I'd lost after my freshman year at college, when I replaced that 
information in my brain with rules for various drinking games.

3) For no good reason, the plastic clip on the interior of the hatch that 
keeps the door to the roadside hazard signs and stuff broke, and there's 
something rattling around in the inside of the hatch. One of those things I 
mean to take a look at, but forget about until I use the hatch.

4) Some of the pixels in the LED display in the center console have gone 
out.

Other than that, the car has been very well behaved, though I don't like it. 
It's handy for hauling computers around in, but it's not quite as fun and 
peppy as the V8. I also don't care for the weird capsule shape they were 
doing with the A6's of that era. But, as I say, it was for a girlfriend, and 
she thought it was "cute".

I've always been irked that the owner's manual tells you go to an Audi 
dealership to replace headlamp bulbs, because headlights are an amazingly 
complex system, too much for your yuppie brain to comprehend, and what are 
you doing opening the hood on the car in the first place, you smug bastard?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Scott DeWitt" <sdewitt at stx.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:44 PM
To: "Dave Head" <v8q at bellsouth.net>; "v8newlist" <V8 at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: [V8] [s-cars] V8 vs A8 now 3.0 V6

> The 2.8 in both 12 and 30V are pretty reliable with no real glaring issues 
> other than typical maintenance items.
>
> The 3.0 liter however suffers many ailments, mostly top end issues. Many 
> of the parts are also unique to that engine and very expensive. I wouldn't 
> let that dissuade a purchasing decision, as many of the issues can be 
> corrected at a timing belt change interval.
>
> Yes a PES surpcharger is available for the 3.0 liter however many early 
> PES owners have had issues with pre-detonation due to a substandard 
> programming on the computer and has resulted in more than a few documented 
> 3 liters windowing a piston or two. I hope that PES has corrected the 
> issue by now.
>
> Audi nor ZF have never been renowned for their automatic transmissions, 
> perhaps this is why Audi switched to Aisin to supply their automatic 
> gearboxes.
>
> ZF is experiencing similar issues with their DSG transmissions. Perhaps 
> the DSG will become the next 5HP24 and continue to enrich the automatic 
> transmission rebuilders.
>
> I've ranted enough FWIW and YMMV of course!
>
> Tootles
>
> ---- Dave Head <v8q at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> To be fair to Scott, Oz's car was likely a 2.8, which is what I'm
>> thinking of. The rest of my rant still stands...
>>
>> Dave Head wrote:
>> > I know Osman Parvez ran his mom's car (100S) right alongside S4s and
>> > tweaked turbo quattros all the way from St Louis to Pikes Peak on an
>> > enormous high speed run several years back. (that was the year 
>> > 'someone'
>> > in California picked up a maroon 5 speed V8...).
>> >
>> > My general dissatisfaction with Audi centers on their 4 and 5HP24
>> > transmissions which were no damn better than the old VW 3 speeds in my
>> > 79 5000S. Just more expensive to fix. I could pop the whole transaxle
>> > out of a 5000S in about 90 minutes flat. In a pinch I could take off 
>> > the
>> > 4 nuts holding the trans section on the back and just swap it out,
>> > praying I got the 18" long pump drive in right...
>> >
>> > That's why I never bought an S8... There's a grand business rebuilding
>> > A8/S8 transmissions going on on Audiworld.
>> > I can get a bulletproof 4L60E for under 1800 bucks no shipping or core
>> > charge. It will hold 500 hp and last forever...
>> >
>> > I never thought I would get here, but I've gotten tired of wrenching on
>> > cars after the heart attack - and I have yet to own an Audi that didn't
>> > have 5 things that needed fixing.
>> >
>> > In comparison, my Jetta TDI never had to go to the dealer for a thing 
>> > in
>> > 70K miles other than a timing belt. I changed oil and filters and that
>> > was it. In almost 6 years of ownership I had to replace a battery. That
>> > was it. I put tires on it before I traded it and had the recalls done.
>> >
>> > In two years the wifes 03 Deville has had oil and filter changes and 
>> > the
>> > tires rotated. That is IT. It knocks down 19 mpg city driven
>> > judiciously, sips a quart of oil evers 1800 miles and gives me 25 mpg
>> > hwy with a Northstar V8. And if you want it to move, it will. Maybe it
>> > doesn't have the grip and suspension of a V8 quattro, but its also not
>> > 50 and 100 dollaring me to death every time I've turned around.
>> >
>> > The 5 speed has been very reliable - likely because Dave C. pampered it
>> > to death and I've barely put 2.5K on it including the drive down from 
>> > PA.
>> >
>> > Dave Head
>> > Audiless tomorrow for the first time since 95.
>> > 91 V8 5speed
>> > 90 V8q red
>> > 92 V8q green
>> > 90 V8q lago
>> > 90 200q pearl
>> > 87 5000TQ brown
>> > 79 5000S - the one that started it all!
>> >
>> >
>> > Scott DeWitt wrote:
>> >> The 3.0 gas engine is a piece of shit, probably the worst engine Audi
>> >> has made. The cam sprocket bolts tend to loosen over time resulting in
>> >> total engine destruction.
>> >>
>> >> ---- Dave Head <v8q at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >>> The 3.0 is a rock solid engine, and you can put a supercharger on it
>> >>> if you want more pep...
>> >>>
>> >>> Brian Armstead wrote:
>> >>>> As an aside from this thread, does anyone know the reliability or
>> >>>> any issues with the 3.0 V6?  I'm looking at a 2003 A6 Avant with
>> >>>> one.  I like the pep, but don't want a leaking nightmare. Any other
>> >>>> a6 Avant advice? Thanks!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Brian
>> >>>> 93 S4
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dave C wrote:
>> >>>>> Howdy Q-heads,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> My fleet of Audi's consists of two 1987 type 44's.  I bought one of
>> >>>>> them in
>> >>>>> 1992, and have been driving and maintaining these things for a very
>> >>>>> long
>> >>>>> time, doing all my own maintenance and know them inside and out.
>> >>>>> But they
>> >>>>> are getting on in years and I find myself considering replacement 
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>> something newer.  The question is "how much newer?"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'm nervous about not understanding how a car works and maybe being
>> >>>>> unable
>> >>>>> to repair it when things go wrong, etc.  I recently drove a 2007 A8
>> >>>>> for the
>> >>>>> first time and was in awe of the complexity of the cockpit with so
>> >>>>> many
>> >>>>> electronic gizzies.  I've never driven a V8, or even sat in one for
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>> matter, but I'm aware of the loyal following they have.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It looks like I could buy a first generation A8 (D2) for somewhere
>> >>>>> in the
>> >>>>> neighborhood of $10K but it would be a ten year old car with 100K
>> >>>>> miles on
>> >>>>> it, so I would need to anticipate repairs from the start.  I don't
>> >>>>> want to
>> >>>>> spend a whole lot more than $10 K on a car, but could go higher if
>> >>>>> I felt it
>> >>>>> was worth it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'd actually like to have an avant, but choices are limited.  A
>> >>>>> 2002-3 S6
>> >>>>> avant would be very nice :-)  Maybe I should consider an A6 avant.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Considering that I like to keep my cars for a long time and do my 
>> >>>>> own
>> >>>>> maintenance, would I be better off with the more familiar
>> >>>>> technology of the
>> >>>>> V8 or an URS4/6?  I think there would be a benefit to getting
>> >>>>> something ten
>> >>>>> years newer than that (A8) but it would still be a 10 year old
>> >>>>> car.  Another
>> >>>>> upside re: the A8 is that there are a >lot< more of them available
>> >>>>> to choose
>> >>>>> from.  Most of the V8's and URS4's are pretty beat by now... clean
>> >>>>> low-mileage examples are quite scarce.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So ...  should look for a clean V8 or URS4?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Or should I look at something much newer and try to adapt to 21st
>> >>>>> century
>> >>>>> automotive technology?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Decisions, decisions.
>> >>>>> - -
>> >>>>> David Conner
>> >>>>> Columbus, OH
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> S-CAR-List mailing list
>> >>>>> http://audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>> >>>>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>> >>>>>
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