[V8] G60 brakes

Fri Feb 11 17:09:08 PST 2011

 I've put the 30mm ABT bar on using the 28mm bushings, I've put 'back' on a 28mm bar with the stamped brackets and bone stock Audi 26mm bushings, and it was no big deal Ron.  Try it.   2mm will work, btdt.

Yes the UFO is the dog in the group, it's an 18mm ball joint.  C4 cars have 19mm ball joints.  The first time I saw a homebrew G60 conversion that came in for suspension noise, this became a very apparent mistake.  Could be deadly.

To the suspension setup I read below, I don't have to do any math to say the rear bar isn't doing a damn thing, except raising the inside the inside rear wheel sooner = less traction.  2B uses a lot of 'kalifornication' to their coil overs for glass smooth ride of socal, and IME that's just too damn much spring rate for any other part of the country, or any street driven machine.  I don't run near those spring rates on the 5ktq race car I built.  I helped build and design, then installed coil overs for the type 44 almost 15years ago.   And have done the gambit of spring rates, including the LT1Q, without getting close to those rates. And I've modified and corrected a full 2B coil over setup on a C4 that came oversprung and underdamped with about the same rates I see you running.

On rails?  Some consider that a good thing.  I'm about performance at the track, and wheel travel on the street. Bars are better for effective spring rates in turns, than using straight spring rate.  If they aren't custom valved konis, the dampers are wrong too.  You run that car hard, lift the inside wheel with the spring rate and bar, slam it back down, you'll be shopping for a rear torsen too, btst.

my .02

SJ

-----Original Message-----
From: ron_01056 at yahoo.com
To: qshipq at aol.com <qshipq at aol.com>
Cc: v8 at audifans.com <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: G60 brakes - PLEASE READ CORRECTION TO ERRORS

   Most my experience is with 90-93 v8.  I have never seen in person a 94 so u saying they were randomly put on makes sense.

As far as the bar fitting with the stamped brackets with OE parts (and not a custom or the like) bushing is IME not going to happen. If it does I would like a picture. 

 As far as the ball joint.....I did not know that!!!!!! So the 5k, 200 and 100's from 86-90 had 17 or 18mm ball joints? And the 90-91 200 and v8's had 18mm joints? While the C4 cars have 19mm joints Scott?????

 Now as far as a noticeable difference with it I can't tell!!!! I all so have a rear sway bar (17mm), 2Benn front and rear coilovers. 800/750lbs custom springs W/Koni's. I have Delrin rear subframe bushing's and front Delrin inner sway bar bushings with Aluminum front subframe bushing's. Now,
with that said I just can't tell cause the suspension on the car now is completely different from what was on there before. I haven't driven a car......besides the EKQ (Evo killer) and that was a long while ago....but in any event the car (mine) rides like it's on rails!!!!!!

 Ron
90 v8 5sp ABT chip UFO housings with MB S500 BBK's 
91 v8 5sp 4.2 ABT chip G60 housings with Alcon BBK's
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From:  qshipq at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:34:31 -0500
To: <ingo.rautenberg at gmail.com>; <ron_01056 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <v8 at audifans.com>; <toml99 at todomundo.com>
Subject: Re: G60 brakes - PLEASE READ CORRECTION TO ERRORS

 Ok a couple of clarifications, now that the misinformation is getting me all confused....  First off, I have worked on 3 ABH v8 USA cars with original owners years ago that had the 28mm bar from the factory.  IMU, these were randomly used in the late ABH series cars, most commonly found on '94's.   To the stamped vs cast swaybar mounting clamps:   ABT made a 30mm bar application that used the stamped early style clamps, which means you absolutely can use stamped clamps on a 28mm bar.  I have use the stamped style clamps on a 28mm bar of my own car with inner bushings from Suspension techniques.  I've also seen a stamped 26mm bar AND bushing set on a 28mm bar.  To the biggest error I read on this thread, THE UFO UPRIGHT IS NOT A 19mm BALL JOINT RON!!!!!!!.  It is 18mm (REREAD PLEASE: IT"S AN 18MM BALL JOINT ON UFO CARS), and if you try to use that 18mm joint on a 19mm S4 Upright, you are compromising the safety of that vehicle!  Rant off.

WRT springs, that is not part of the TSB Customer complaint for the UF0>G60 Conversion Campaign in the USA.  

WRT handling,  there is less front body roll.  Specifically, since bar diameter (given same design and material) stiffness increase is diameter^4 power (26x26x25x26) = 456,976 'units' vs (28x28x28x28)= 614,656  614,656/456,976 = 1.345 = The 28mm bar has a 34.5% increase in roll bar rate over the 26mm bar.  That rate makes a big difference on either a stock or modified car, and yields a noticeable improvement in handling.  

Luckily the urs car boys with 26mm factory bars have it simpler, as all urA6 chassis wagons had 28mm bars.

HTH

Scott J
92 v8 ABT Chipped G60's
91 v8 UFO 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ingo Rautenberg <ingo.rautenberg at gmail.com>
To: ron_01056 at yahoo.com
Cc: v8 at audifans.com <v8 at audifans.com>; toml99 at todomundo.com <toml99 at todomundo.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [V8] G60 brakes

Rob,

I thought all the '92 and '93 V8s with ABH motor came with the 28mm bar? I

put one on my 200q20v and have the same one on one of my '91 V8s. Yes, the

carriers are cast aluminum (or aluminium) and much beefier than the stamped

steel units used for the 26mm bars - and alo require different size rubber

bushings for the carriers and longer bolts. As to the setup when changing

for UFO rotors to G60s from the dealership -- I believe we used the UrS4

(100 quattro with I5 turbo) uprights and control arms. They use the larger

balljoints iirc.

Ingo

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:49 PM, <ron_01056 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> No v8 in the States came with the 28mm bar! U got ta buy one and have it

> shipped from Germany.....along with new saddles, bushing and longer bolts.

>  I did a group buy of them like 4 or so years ago. I have one on

> Betty....not sure I can give an impression of the benefits of it cause my

> suspension is not stock.

>

>  Ron

>

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: "toml99 at todomundo.com" <toml99 at todomundo.com>

> Sender: v8-bounces at audifans.com

> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:44:01

> To: v8audi<v8 at audifans.com>

> Subject: [V8]  G60 brakes

>

> Definatly does not have the 28mm bar......

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