[V8] Auto trannys, manual trannys, dynos and driving!

[Scott Justusson]

A lot of wandering about here.  Seems it started with a claim that 2 Scotts see varying dyno results with auto to 5/6 speed conversions.  No one said that means more HP from the engine, you assumed that.  I will say automatic v8 generate a LOT of heat, the question we might propose is only whether it's 20-30hp worth?  I claim it sure can be, as a torque converter is a heat pump of the first order.  Audi thought so much so, it put a fan on the trans cooler for the 4.2   I consider a dyno a tool, mostly for customers and tuning.  Anyone that knows me, understands I don't give a rats behind what that number is, because I'm a chassis dynamics guy.  The dyno number doesn't matter if the car can't make use of it, or the driver lacks talent.

Me, I own many Audis, some with manuals, and some with Automatics.  I'm not a huge fan of big cars and 5speeds.  My 91 200 is about as big as it gets for me in preference.  My 4kq with a stage III 200 20vt engine in it brings shifting smiles to my face more so than the 200.  My ABT Chipped 4.2 v8 is a road car I enjoy for the miles that it eats at speed without effort, including shifting effort.

Honestly the rest of your post seems lost in hot tub time machine jumping back and forth in period-correctness. Audi v8 autos create massive heat, DSG and PDK boxes are full lockup automatics in every gear, which is why they are the rule these days.   I will take easy issue with your Cobra argument, because I witnessed that fail too many times at the track.   It's not about power to weight anymore, it's about chassis dynamics, period.  Since I built and service a 5ktq race car (2700lb wet), and also drove it for many years at a wide variety or marque events..... I don't need any ego to say, you need to get to the track more.

Since I have been involved in Safety and Driving committees for almost 15 years, your Cobra argument is lost, because convertible rules are the future of:   not allowed.  I argued against one 10 years ago at Mid OH, not because I thought in any way it was a threat to be faster, but because it was a threat to safety of the drivers.  In the new world of pea gravel runoffs, they will be banned, and I bet sooner than later (it only takes one).

Bottom Line, I think you missed many of the points and observations being made.  I know Scott in TX knows transmissions at a practical level much better than what your time jumps present here.  Me, I'm a educator and competitor in/of practical awd chassis dynamics.  I can't relate to your boast of a cobra replica, because I have yet to see one be better than mid pack in a very long time.  Makes me think it's not all about power to weight at all.

But I understood what Scott was saying the first time?

Scott J




 

-----Original Message-----
From: Professor GT gmail <CavalloGT at gmail.com>
To: v8 <v8 at audifans.com>
Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 8:33 pm
Subject: [V8] Auto trannys, manual trannys, dynos and driving!


Roger,
Thanks for you very seasoned, reasonable and realistic insights. 

Some folks however just don't get it! 

Someone once said, "Opinions are like rear ends, everybody has one!" So, based 
on the manure that's been flying, I digress.

Hmm. With all the experts lurking around here, I thought there would be more 
that realize that dynos are but only one tool out of many, and the dyno results 
are just that: numerical indicators, not Biblical passages. 

But, in this world of digital overload it doesn't surprise me that some folks 
have lost sight of reality. Just look at what's happened to the youth of today. 
Can they articulate a cogent conversation? I'm many cases, no ..... but they can 
text like bandits though. Anyone who puts all their eggs in the Dyno basket.....  
well you know how that one goes.

Many forget to consider where and how the rubber meets the road, and worse, some 
forget that these V8s are road cars, NOT race cars. 

Hey, if a race car is what you want, go build a Cobra replica, cause IDGAS (I 
Don't Give A S...) what your Dyno says, even a mild Cobra build will terribly 
embarrass our V8s both on or off the racetrack, if in fact that's how you are 
going to look at it, Quattro or no Quattro! Thats about much better 
power-to-weight ratio, and superior chassis dynamics, period!

And yes, a Cobra with the right automatic will kick the crap out of any stick 
you wanna put in it, no questions asked. 
I may have to build one of those bastards that way just to prove the point, but 
then again there are those who would still whine about it. Besides, driving a 
car like that seems to lose its appeal without giving the driver an extra pedal 
and a stick to play with! LOL! 

Seriously though, just look at many truckers. Countless numbers still pound 
their chests and insist on manual trannys when those Neanderthal devices have 
been proven time and time again to be inferior. Kind of like the "might is 
right" argument. Yea, maybe some kick-boxing athlete can kick my butt, buy a 
nice 357mag is certainly handy to fend off one of those Neanderthals in short 
order.

But hey, with respect to trucks, all the big fleets must be wrong, ....... 
right? Hmmm, why do THEY use Allison AUTOMATICS? (Hint: better fuel economy, 
less repairs, lower maintenance costs, less driver fatigue..... Shall I go on?)

But Noooo, the Neanderthals must be right - automatics are too inefficient! Give 
me a break!    I'm done! - Some cranial bones are just too thick to penetrate, 
even with simple logic!

The V8 is a nice classic Euro luxury road car that was reasonably amped up to 
the point of being a fun performer. Better than your average sedan in many ways, 
but a race car? Our v8s are NOT DTM racers!
If you sadly delude yourself into thinking you have a race car here, ........ 
well better you than me.

Automated Manuals? Are you kidding me? The euro DSG gearboxes are crap for 
everyday driving, and oh yea, hello! the lack of a torque converter is only one 
reason why the suck so badly. But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about so 
I'll stop wasting my time trying to educate those who already know it all.

I'll have fun driving my V8 while they prove to the world that their dynos build 
better cars by black magic.

On the contrary, I don't make my living selling folks things they don't need. I 
educate folks in the automotive technical disciplines so they can discern the 
wheat from the chaff for themselves. 

And oh yea, one more thing: The difference between horsepower and torque! - some 
will NEVER be able to cross that great divide of understanding. Torque is what's 
important, because without it horsepower doesn't exist. Chew on that for a bit.

Till then there are those who will enjoy thrashing some fools car on their dynos 
while they laugh all the way to the bank as they use that dyno data to convince 
many fools to spend more money on needless modifications. 

It has, and always will be buyer beware out there. Personally I'm glad I can 
weed through the BS and not waste my money, as I enjoy motoring on past all the 
Joe Racer wanna-bees! 

Fart-Can muffler anyone?

- OK, with all due respect,  now let the sh _ _ storm begin! This is so much 
fun, almost as fun as grinding the gears in my 5-speed!

ProfessorGT
(Sent from my iPhone4)
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