[V8] Those giggling Audi gods....

[Roger M. Woodbury]

Well, I don't really disagree with any of this. My '87 Mercedes 
190D-Turbo remains one of my most favorite of all cars and through the 
fist 110,000 miles of use it cost zero to maintain other than regular 
dealer services according to schedule and oil changes.  I drove that car 
year round, and in the winter had four Mercedes steel wheels with 
studded tires in order to survive.

And it is those studded tires that really makes a tremendous difference 
for me.  I have ice and treacherous driving conditons real time, day in 
and day out, likely for six months out of the year.  Oh, yes, we do have 
though "shoulder" months when it is cold enough at night to freeze the 
roads and mild enough by nine the next morning to forget about the 
previous night's chill, but the skidding is still possible. Althoug I 
don't venture out as I did twenty five years ago, there still is the 
possibility, so never again will I buy a car that I intend to drive all 
year round, unless it is all wheel drive.  Hence my interest in the 
Mercedes 4-matic wagon, up to model year 2001.

The reason I have limited my interest in model years 1999, 2000, and 
2001, is that newer than that the electronic interfaces in the 
car...actually pretty much any car....make them far more problematic to 
service and far more likely to suffer some feeble little electronic 
glitch...perhaps a grain of dust across a contact...somewhere that means 
the key doesn't talk to the gizzie module that talks to the guzzie 
module that talks to this and that and then, when it gets the right 
signal back, says it's ok for the engine to start.  They all do it, 
Mercedes, Audi and the others, all after about 2002 or so.

Now, I don't particularly like the appearance of the Mercedes I've 
cited, but they are arguably the better buy than the newer ones.

BUT, they all have polycarbonate headlights and I've decided to say no 
to them entirely, as long as my Euro, glass-lensed '94 Avant keeps 
thundering along.

And then there is that pesky rust.  My '94 Avant has NONE.  Some 
corrosion on the doors where the lower mouldings have fallen off as they 
do, but that's surface corrosion and fixable. The body benath the car is 
UNrusted, so no danger of failing the annual Maine safety inspection for 
some years yet.

It's really not a question of which car...this, that, or Japanese...is 
cheaper to maintain, sells parts cheaper, or even supplies them.  I 
don't expect to buy parts through the Audi dealer for any of my cars nor 
would I take one of them to the authorized dealer for service.  I have 
used the same independent mechanic for more than fifteen years, he has 
all the computer and otherwise equipment necessary to work on anything 
on the road (except for the latest Mercedes as twenty grand for their 
software isn't justifiable for his business), and so far, parts are not 
a problem.  This will probably change as eventually the V8 will need 
something that is either too expensive to have made or otherwise 
unobtainable. That will likely happen, but I'll not handicap by forecasting.

I hope you have good luck with your Mercedes.  The engines and 
transmisisons in those years were fine, except for the early 
4-matics...I drove one when I was contemplating getting rid of the 
5000CS Avant Quattro that was my first Audi. That was around 1994 or so, 
and there was this gorgeous smoke silver/black Mercedes wagon that my 
favorite Euro used car guy had on consignment...I drove it over night 
and found the 4-matic system was at least neurotic and took it back.

Roger



On 5/12/2015 12:48 PM, cobram at juno.com wrote:
> I would respectfully disagree with your tech.  Having a bit of experience
> with both, the only department Mercedes doesn't trump Audi when it comes
> to longevity and cost of maintenance is rust.
>
> Having owned (and still own) both, I can unequivocally say that my 1987
> 300TDT Mercedes is basically a German Tank with the repair and
> maintenance requirements of a Japanese Appliance.
>
> The Audi's of the same and newer vintage, no matter how much lipstick you
> slap on it, doesn't even come close.  Bonus,  an 18 yr old Mercyless has
> more parts available for it than a 10 year old Audi.
>
> 15 years of Boston winters, parking on the street and some pretty
> impressive payload hauls, if I count everything non routine maintenance
> I've done to the Mercyless on my fingers, I'm still on one hand.  Added
> bonus, there's actually a lunatic fringe that will spend real money for a
> "vintage" Mercedes, where an Audi of similar vintage garners scrap value
> on a good day.  After 15 years of use and abuse, the Mercyless is worth
> more than I paid for it, rust and all.  Oh, that's actually value too, as
> there is someone aside from an insurance company that is willing to pay
> that for the car.
>
> The power steering pump is the most expensive item that I've had to deal
> with so far, I got a rebuilt from California for $250.
>
> I love the older Audi's, they have a soul and all that, but as we, like
> the cars themselves age and get closer to the end than the beginning, our
> perspectives on what things are worth doing changes dramatically.
> I wish there was a new generation to take the helm, but they for the most
> part, could care less.  Maybe if some HBO series features a vintage Audi
> will there be a chance of a demand blip on the market screen.
>
> I even treated myself to "new" car, a 1992 300TE, fresh from God's
> waiting room in FL, less than 80k miles, dealer maintained, and if it
> lasts anywhere near as long as it's 1987 predecessor will, it can double
> as my coffin when the time comes.
>
> I now have a decent 1987 300TDT for sale, pay me what the engine is worth
> and drive it away with the rest of the car for free......  ;-)
>
> BCNU,
> Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
>
> "Roger M. Woodbury" <rmwoodbury at fairpoint.net> writes:
>> Actually, I rather enjoy the sound.  It's not really mocking, and for
>> my
>> part, it seems the older my Audis get the softer the giggling gods
>> sound.  My 100 Avant is less than a tank full of fuel less than
>> 200,000
>> miles and runs like a swiss watch.
>>
>> My V8 slept last year away in the garage, it's battery firmly
>> connected
>> to a battery tender, with periodic visits by me to turn the key and
>> hear
>> the eight cylinders begging for a romp.
>>
>> A while ago I was having a theoretical discussion with my wrench as
>> the
>> shop was installing somethingorother on the Avant. I said I was
>> contemplating "rolling the fleet" and going back to one car and that
>> one
>> car might well be a '99 to 01 Mercedes 4-matic wagon.  I said the
>> prices
>> were right, the supply seemed strong and the car appropriate for the
>>
>> driving my wife were doing.
>>
>> His response was easy and quick.  He asked why I would consider
>> doing
>> that. He said the problems/repair areas that the Mercedes of that(or
>>
>> any) vintage are largely similar to what I had going on with my
>> Audis.
>> Ball joints, tie rods, miscellaneous seals and normal wear items.
>> The
>> only real mechanical maintenance item missing on the Mercedes that
>> is on
>> the Audis is the timing belt.  And he said the Merecedes timing
>> chain
>> guides were wear items that often require replacement at around 100k
>> or
>> so, and that can...not always...but that can get expensive.  Then
>> the
>> best part:  He pointed out that I have had enough Audis so that I
>> largely know what the failure and wear items are that will need to
>> be
>> replaced.
>>
>> This pas thread about crank position sensor....yup!  BTDT!  I have
>> also
>> done the tie rods and all that jazz on both the V8 and the Avant.
>> The
>> last time the Avant was in the shop it was running less well than
>> usual.  Nothing specific, just sort of weak and unenthusiastic. I
>> also
>> knew the front struts were gonzo, so they were on the list.
>>
>> What the mech did was to replace the struts and bushings first, then
>> he
>> went and replaced about forty miles (well, so I exaggerate a little:
>>   
>> isn't that expected to please the Audi gods?), well, ok, thirty
>> miles of
>> vacuum hose and tubing.  The result was that the car was dead silent
>> on
>> the road again, and the engine was smooth as silk. In fact, I really
>>
>> think the engine and transmisison are smoother now at near-200k than
>>
>> they were at 39k when I first drove the car off that dealer's lot in
>>
>> Kansas City fourteen years ago.
>>
>> So, experience with the cars works. I have also had the extreme
>> displeasure of having the backup light switch replaced...that's the
>> one
>> that dips the passenger side outside mirror.  Seems that switch is
>> located above the transmission beneath the car. Driving around on
>> Maine's heavily salted and sanded winter roads allows...no maybe the
>>
>> Audi gods encouraged...the location of this switch to accumulate
>> salty,
>> wet sand and other winter road crud that eventually destroys the
>> switch.  The switch? Well, about $400!  The labor? Well, about six
>> and a
>> half hours by the book!  (My wrench sold me the switch at his cost
>> which
>> was just over $200.) but it still was a VERY expensive maintenance
>> kind
>> procedure.
>>
>> I also am a veteran of an Audi 200 Avant transmission shifter
>> bushing
>> failure. That plus a sudden and unexpected front half-shaft failure
>> on
>> the same car were the only times one of my Audis left me
>> stranded...oh,
>> other than the time my first V8 suffered massive reverse gear
>> failure
>> that resulted in an transmission overhaul...oh...yeah...don't get me
>>
>> started on that.
>>
>> So, next up will be a new windshield for the V8.  Going to call the
>> insurance company on that maybe today. This should be
>> interesting...more
>> experience!  I hope the Audi gods are smiling today!
>>
>> Roger
>>
>
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com