[Fwd: Re: [Vwdiesel] winter oil]

[dominique cormann]

I think we both know that there is no real definition of the word
'synthetic', its just a marketing term. That issue was put to rest when
Castrol won the right in court to call Castrol syntec a 'synthetic' when
it was switched to group 3 based product.

More importantly is that group 3 and 4 (PAO) have similar performance
parameters for the factors that are important in a automobile engine oil.
PAO's and ESTERS (group 4/5) can handle much higher temps, but these are
temp ranges not seen in car engines, but are important for industrial
and aviation ( turbine oil ) uses. They still have a temp range that
exceeds the needs of automotive uses. Group III have a viscousity index
that puts them in the same strength range as PAO's and the esters used
for automotive use.  They will hold a larger additive package like
esters, and unlike PAO's.  They also don't have seal swelling issues of
esters.

Basically for automotive uses, group 3 represents a chance to spend more
money on the additive package to produce a better oil for the same money
or less money.

Even Amsoil has jumped on the group 3 bandwagon with their XL-7500 oil.
And Amsoils still calls it a Synthetic too, and claims that it meets and
in some ways exceeds the performance of the older PAO/ESTER (group4/5)
formula for the same product. I believe they even lowered the price for
the product when it went group 3.

http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_xl7500.htm

Also not all are based on dino based stocks. Some are hydroprocessed
from other sources. Shell for example hydroprocesses slack wax, which is
what is removed from distilled crude. A waste product created during the
conventional solvent processing used to create group I oils for shell.
Like PAO's, they use a non-distilate feedstock, and hydroprocess it into
a base oil with a very high viscousity index (>140, which places it
within the range of PAO - 135 to 165).  This is the base oil used for
the Shell 5w40 synthetic rotella and Helix ultra.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:10 -0600
"TexasTDI" <TexasVWdriver at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Group 4 oils are the only true 100% synthetic oils because they're made with
> synthetic basestocks.  Group 3 oils are made with dino-oil basestocks.
>
> Chris Thornton
> 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles
> 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles
> 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE
> Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500
> http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dominique cormann" <dcormannml at rogers.com>
> To: "TexasTDI" <TexasVWdriver at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vwdiesel at audifans.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Vwdiesel] winter oil]
>
>
> > Yes it is, and that does indeed explain the price differene to a point.
> > However the sythetic version from Shell and Chevron are much closer in
> > price to Delvac then they are to Duron. So I see this product as a great
> > bargain.
> >
> > Judging from the oil analysis reports done at 10,000 miles from the
> > users on Fred's TDI forum, they both appear to be able to run that
> > period of time, and provide similiar performance ( wear rates and how
> > worn out the oil was ).
> >
> > Also group 3 oils have some advantages over group 4 and 5 oils. The
> > groups numbers increasing does not correlate with quality. Group 3 oils
> > have higher additive holding ability, similar to ester base oils ( group
> > 5 ) without the issues with seal swelling. It is for this reason that
> > PAO (group 4) is usually mixed with ester base oils so that they can
> > hold the additive package.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:39:44 -0600
> > "TexasTDI" <TexasVWdriver at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Duron 5w-40 is cheaper than Delvac-1 5w-40 because Duron is a Group 3
> oil
> > > and Delvac-1 is a Group 4 oil.
> > >
> > > Chris Thornton

----------------------------------------------------------------
   o  |~>                                      Dominique Cormann
| (\._[~]                                 dcormann at rogers.com
|~|) |~~|                             http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca