[Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power

[Shirley, Mark R]

And you have no concept of the amount of useful work
that energy provided by hydrocarbons accomplishes.  You want to dump the
6 billion residents of the world back into the middle ages?  Ask everyone
to pedal a bike to make enough juice to do anything.  

Since it didn't sink in the first time:

HYDROGEN ISN'T A POWER SOURCE.  IT'S AN ENERGY TRANSPORT SYSTEM.

YOU GET THE HYDROGEN BY CONVERTING FOSSIL FUELS TO ELECTRICITY, 
AND SPLITTING THE WATER MOLELCULE INTO HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN, OR
CONVERTING DIRECTLY TO HYDROGEN FROM HYDROCARBONS.

EITHER PROCESS HAS AN EFFICIENCY, AND A LOSS ASSOCIATED WITH IT,
AND EACH HYDROGEN CAR HAS A LOSS WHEN YOU CONVERT IT BACK.

HYDROGEN AS A FUEL ONLY MOVES THE POLLUTION FROM A LOCALIZED POINT AT
YOUR TAILPIPE TO THE POWER PLANT.  AND THE EXTRA CONVERSION COSTS
YOU MORE ENERGY THAN YOU WOULD HAVE ORIGINALLY HAD YOU BURNED THE HYDROCARBONS.

AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE ENERGY FROM SOLAR CELLS EITHER, THE POWER
DENSITIES ARE TOO LOW TO REPLACE HYDROCARBON FUELS.

THERE IS NO SHORT TERM REPLACEMENT FOR HYDROCARBON FUELS.  NO ALTERNATE
FUEL SOURCE OR SOLAR/WIND CAN REPLACE THE NEEDS OF THE WORLD 100%

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rod welch [mailto:rod.welch at kolumbus.fi]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:44 AM
> To: 'Sandy Cameron'; vwdiesel at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power
> 
> 
> You got legs... get peddling...  if not use a dog/donkey 
> etc...  or even the
> sun??
> 
> Rant on man....!  but you are completely wrong...  
> 
> Rod
> Värtsilä
> Finland
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandy Cameron [mailto:scameron at compmore.net] 
> Sent: 17 May 2005 19:09
> To: vwdiesel at audifans.com
> Subject: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power
> 
> At 04:02 PM 5/17/05 +0300, you wrote:
> >
> >C'mon guys... get real...   diesels are following 
> dinosaurs....  (just like
> >gassers...)   Hydrogen is the only way to go. 
> >I seem to remember making it at school...  Water, battery, 
> match, bang....
> >Something like that...
> 
> Who made and charged the battery???
> 
> Another case of impaired vision, and an entropy-burdened myth 
> foisted by
> politicians and market sensitive industrialists who depend on 
> our ignorance
> to profit.
> 
> There's no loose hydrogen to be captured or stolen on this 
> planet, and it
> takes more energy to release it from water than you will get 
> from using it.
> (process losses.)
> 
> Hydrogen is only useful for rocket science, and costs 
> millions to produce.
> 
> [Rant Off]
> 
> Sandy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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