[Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power

Thu May 19 02:19:29 EDT 2005

Exactly Todd.
The C=C bonds pack a lot of energy as compared to anything else with single
bonds. Just comparing gasoline to alcohol, it takes twice the alcohol volume
to run a gas engine, and alcohol seems volatile enough and all, but has
significantly less energy.  Father-in-law returned from wintering in AZ and
was quite impressed that the alcohol blend fuels are now available, and
cheaper, and better according to the adverts, etc etc...  Apparently because
the alcohol blend has a motor octane number one point higher, it is being
proclaimed as having more power because it's more like a premium fuel blend.
We discussd fuel for a while after that...
Hydrogen with much less energy density requires a vehicle with a fueling
stop every hour or so.  I can do better than that with a wood gas generator
in the back of a 1950's mercury truck. For alternatives to what we currently
have, it has to have an expense that is relative to the benefits, it has to
be easy to accomplish within the existing framework, and use existing
technology.

For the hydrogen gang:
Consider informing us clueless narrowminded rednecks how this is overcome,
as opposed to asserting it is simply better and if I don't understand it, I
am incapable of such.  I find that attitude more insulting than if you
started to call me names, well, that wouldn't bug me so much.

I wonder:

1.  where does the energy come from to either electolyze water or crack
hydrogen from natural gas?
2.  How is this energy produced, and do these processes have any wastes,
such as carbon and smoke emissions, and where does if go?
2-1/2. Does this technology currently exist in any form?
3.  Transportation of H2 is accomplished how, in bottles like I get mig gas
in? (first hydrogen powered car I saw was a datsun in 1975 with a bottle in
the trunk.) Trailers for this kind of high pressure gas are not cheap or
big, and you have to pay hazard pay to the trucker in addition to regular
rates.
4.  Infrastructure.  Many cars to refuel. Expensive to do so. It all needs
to be built. how does it happen, who pays for it?
5.  On board fuel in a crash- what safety tanks are available?  Will you be
able to find the accident sites of hydrogen cars from the crater and
mushroom cloud?

These are just a few off the top of my head. IF I actually thought about it
at length, which I am incapable of it would seem from some of the
discussion, (my narrow mind will simply not allow it), I could come up with
more.  Failing that, I can always rely on Mr Shirley to fill in the gaps.
:-)

Incidentally...  I was thinking about the greasy algae posted yesterday on
the biofuel link.  Dried, then
 powdered.  Diesel engines were originally designed to run on coal dust ya
know.  Dried powdered 50% oily algae.  Now that has potential.  You can dump
some city sewage in a lagoon, seed your algae, stand back while it grows,
harvest, dry and powder it. Redesign the fuel system to either gasify it
like a wood gas generator on the fly or add directly as dust.  Hell of an
explosion out of dust.  I would think that would have more potential than
hydrogen as long as the spenders of other people's money would not be
involved in the design phase... that seems to f' up more stuff than not.

waiting with interest...

-James

-----Original Message-----
From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com]On
Behalf Of Todd Osterbrink
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:49 PM
To: vwdiesel at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power

Was reading something about the great late Clarence Kelly and his amazing
SR-71 Black Bird.  During it's design phase, they thought about powering it
with Hydrogen.

That plan fissled when they found out it would take a plane with a fuel tank
the size of a football field to do the job!  Turns out Hydrogen doesn't have
enough energy per unit of measure and it would take 3 to 4 times the amount
of Hydrogen to equal the  energy in a given amount of JP-7.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rod welch" <rod.welch at kolumbus.fi>
To: "'Shirley, Mark R'" <MarkRShirley at eaton.com>; "'Sandy Cameron'"
<scameron at compmore.net>; <vwdiesel at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power

Oh...Oh...  are we having too much fun??

But you should do some serious reading...  try
http://www.h2foresight.info/index.htm for a start.

Here (in Finland) anyway they are using fuel cells (11kg) to run scooters
and boats already, I mean nothing is for free in this world is it? and we
are talking about Zero emissions and water as a waste product...

Rod
Värtsilä
Finland

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley, Mark R [mailto:MarkRShirley at eaton.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 16:58
To: Sandy Cameron; vwdiesel at audifans.com
Subject: RE: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power

Thank you Sandy, for saving me from having a meltdown and spending
lots of time compiling an email that would cause heartburn....  :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandy Cameron [mailto:scameron at compmore.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 12:09 PM
> To: vwdiesel at audifans.com
> Subject: [Vwdiesel] Hydrogen power
>
>
> At 04:02 PM 5/17/05 +0300, you wrote:
> >
> >C'mon guys... get real...   diesels are following
> dinosaurs....  (just like
> >gassers...)   Hydrogen is the only way to go.
> >I seem to remember making it at school...  Water, battery,
> match, bang....
> >Something like that...
>
> Who made and charged the battery???
>
> Another case of impaired vision, and an entropy-burdened myth
> foisted by
> politicians and market sensitive industrialists who depend on
> our ignorance
> to profit.
>
> There's no loose hydrogen to be captured or stolen on this
> planet, and it
> takes more energy to release it from water than you will get
> from using it.
> (process losses.)
>
> Hydrogen is only useful for rocket science, and costs
> millions to produce.
>
> [Rant Off]
>
> Sandy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
>

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