[Vwdiesel] Gauging Interest-Squareback talk
David Cook
vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 26 17:41:10 EST 2006
Man, the '66 would be pretty nice! (Uh, after a
resto...)
I got it probably 4 years ago or so. A guy asked me
about my beetle in a Best Buy parking lot upon seeing
the outlet I had installed in the rear quarter window.
[side note, your honor] If you want to know why I had
an outlet installed in the rear quarter window of my
beetle, check out this shot:
<http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1047799439034709434cYRrBN>
It was originally on the front page of the newspaper.
Anyway, we got to talking and I mentioned my very
rusted out '65 Beetle 'vert. I had disassembled it to
attempt restoration and found much more rust than I
originally thought.
I also mentioned that I'd like to find a different VW
model than just beetles (all I had experience with at
that point).
He mentioned a buddy with a '66 squareback, and a
trade was arranged.
The 'back is in overall pretty complete, restorable
shape. I think the only real rust is the floor pans,
the rest of the body is very solid. At the time, I
just figured that I was trading a very rusty project
for a much less rusty project.
I think it has most of, if not all its parts. As I
mentioned, I've got a complete-looking engine, as well
as all the t-3 specific cooling, etc parts for another
engine and I know there is a case tapped for t-3 oil
filler in the barn.
If anyone is interested, I'll try to snap a few shots
next time I'm at my parent's house. They wouldn't
mind seeing it leave!
It does have a manual trans, and is a light blue.
Also has a sunroof!
For yours, how badly would it mess up the suspesnion
geometry if you readjusted the torsion bars? Wouldn't
the IRS suspension be less affected by this?
Maybe you could do like you said, split the
difference. Then, build the slightly higher engine
lid to fit the new clearances, and use something to
raise the height (thick sheet of plywood?) of the rest
of the bed slightly to match, so then carpeting or
whatever could be installed and you wouldn't have that
poking up through the cargo area.
Man, talking about Squarebacks makes me want to go get
the '66, but that simply isn't feasable at this point.
David
--- Kurt Nolte <syncronized_turbo at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Well, the reason I'd be hesitant to do the body-lift
> route is that it
> would change the suspension geometry of the back
> end. Perhaps "splitting
> the difference" would be a better route, padding the
> transmission and
> motor mounts out and then throwing another layer of
> soundproofing over
> the cargo bay?
>
> And stop, you're tempting me to try shucking my '71
> to get your '66...
> is it auto or manual? What color? Rust damage?
> Nooooo, need to reduce
> the number of cars... but the allure is so strong!
>
> -Kurt
>
>
> David Cook wrote:
> > Hey Kurt-
> >
> > It looks like you you've answered the questions I
> > asked in my last post, before I saw you had
> replied.
> >
> > I think I'd personally do the body lift thing, I
> don't
> > know if I'd want to go through the whole thing to
> > raise the height of the rest of the trunk floor.
> >
> > (Though I can see it would be a great platform for
> a
> > great long road trip vehicle.)
> >
> > I also really think the '66 has great potential to
> be
> > a sweet car! I just don't know how far down the
> > pipeline that project would be, so I wouldn't be
> > unopposed to taking offers...
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > --- Kurt Nolte <syncronized_turbo at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I've done some measuring, had some other folks do
> >> some measuring, fitted
> >> it all together in my head... and I have to say
> yes,
> >> it will fit, but
> >> no, not entirely under the decklid.
> >>
> >> The Rabbit diesel is only 3" or so longer than
> the
> >> flat-four 1600
> >> engine, from transmission mating surface to the
> very
> >> front end of the
> >> crank pulley on each engine. Less if you don't
> have
> >> AC. Within the
> >> engine bay in the Squareback, there is ~4" of
> free
> >> space at the lip, and
> >> ~6" of free space in the bay proper when the flat
> >> four is in there.
> >> While it will be a tighter fit than the original
> >> motor, there is no
> >> length problem with this install.
> >>
> >> Same for width. There is sufficient space on
> either
> >> side of the skinnier
> >> Rabbit engine for a framework to be made up to
> mount
> >> a radiator or even
> >> two small ones for finer control over cooling air
> >> flow. Of course
> >> electric fans would be needed to draw air in, but
> >> they have always been
> >> needed with the 1.6 diesels.
> >>
> >> The biggest issue is height. Even in a 50 degree
> >> format, the valve cover
> >> corner is going to stick up past the decklid
> height
> >> by an inch or so.
> >> Tilting the engine further is inadvisable; they
> >> simply weren't meant to
> >> be tilted that much. This can be solved in one of
> >> two ways. First, and
> >> the route a previous owner has already taken for
> me
> >> with this car, the
> >> decklid can be cut and an insulated sheet metal
> box
> >> built over it to
> >> handle the extra height. This results in some
> loss
> >> of cargo space and
> >> functionality, severity depending on how big the
> box
> >> is. The PO in this
> >> case was building a box for an upright Carb
> setup,
> >> so it is sizable. It
> >> will be cut down, if I go this route.
> >>
> >> The other option is to change the relationship of
> >> engine/transmission
> >> unit to the body. These two must be moved as a
> unit
> >> for obvious reasons,
> >> as the diesel will need custom mounts fabricated
> for
> >> it in any case this
> >> is not as onerous a task as it could be. The
> >> transmission mounts could
> >> be built up so as to provide an effective inch or
> so
> >> of body lift and
> >> eliminate the need for a box over the engine, but
> >> the rear suspension
> >> would need to be altered to match the new body
> >> height above the
> >> drivetrain. Mostly just different shocks and an
> >> adjustment to the
> >> torsion bars.
> >>
> >> A third option exists too, but it's really a
> "fix"
> >> for the first
> >> option's inevitable box problem. A new deck
> height
> >> could be established
> >> in the back of the car, effectively raising the
> bay
> >> height instead of
> >> the body height. With this, however, you lose
> about
> >> an inch of height
> >> from your entire rear cargo area. For most this
> >> would not be much of an
> >> issue, as many people never max out their cargo
> >> height anyway. The inch
> >> of space could be used for purposes such as
> radiant
> >> cabin heat,
> >> ductwork, or so on and so forth. Were I doing
> this
> >> project for myself, I
> >> would be going this route and using this space to
> >> provide such things as
> >> a built in toolkit cabinet, extra soundproofing,
> and
> >> a small compartment
> >> for the smaller spare parts, such as fuses and
> >> bulbs.
> >>
> >> Of course, were I doing this for myself the spare
> >> would also change over
> >> to a donut-style spare from something like a
> >> Quantum, and be mounted in
> >> the back behind one of the side compartments
> behind
> >> the trim. The trim
> >> itself would be gone and replaced by painted
> sheet
> >> metal, as well as the
> >> rear seat being eliminated in favor of greater
> cargo
> >> space. Ultimately
> >> it would become a "road trip" wagon; two seats,
> but
> >> enough space in the
> >> back to pull over and stretch out for a nap on
> the
> >> road. Redesign
> >> controls for "cruising" comfort, and install at
> >> least the driver's seat
> >> rails a bit further back, as I'm quite
> long-legged
> >> and don't easily fit
> >> into such a vehicle in stock seat positions. The
> >> heater channels would
> >> have a length of steel pipe run up through them,
> >> both to stiffen them up
> >> and to provide passage for coolant water from
> back
> >> to front, and a
> >> heater core mounted within the dash to provide
> heat
> >> when needed. The two
> >> cable controls would be retained for heater
> control.
> >> Where the rear seat
> >> used to be would be used for a spares
> compartment,
> >> storage for tools
> >> that don't fit in the rear cabinet, and a dual
> >> battery setup to ensure
> >> cranking on cold days.
> >>
> >> Of course, that's what I'd do. What I actually do
> >> would be negotiable
> >> with whomever is buying.. price as well. ;)
> >>
> >> And David: If I had your '66 Square, I wouldn't
> even
> >> be close to
> >> thinking about selling. I love the little body
> >> differences between the
> >> 60's and 70's Squares, it'd be a keeper!
> >>
> >> -Kurt
> >>
> >> David Cook wrote:
> >>
> >>> Kurt-
> >>>
> >>> Do you think that the diesel engine will fit in
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> squareback?
> >>>
> >>> I've got a '66 squareback sitting out at my
> >>>
> >> parent's
> >>
> >>> house waiting for a restoration.
> >>>
> >>> It, too, has everything to put together a
> running
> >>>
> >> gas
> >>
> >>> engine as well as a full engine I bought at a
> swap
> >>> meet, no idea how it runs. (And I'd be willing
> to
> >>> sell it to an interested party...)
> >>>
> >>> When I had the two Rabbits sitting in my yard, I
> >>> thought briefly about a diesel 'back but don't
> >>>
> >> think
> >>
> >>> the engine would fit mounted normally. I think
> it
> >>> would protrude into the passenger compartment.
> >>>
> >>> A Fastback or Notchback would be easier, since
> >>>
> >> both
> >>
> >>> had two trunks so the rear one could be
> >>>
> >> "converted"
> >>
> >>> into an engine compartment.
> >>>
> >>> Just wondering if you'd come up with a way to
> >>>
> >> solve
> >>
> >>> that problem. Or if I'm incorrect in my
> thinking.
> >>>
> >> I
> >>
> >>> never measured, but I didn't think that the
> >>>
> >> opening
> >>
> >>> was high enough over the engine. Perhaps a
> >>>
> >> vanagon 50
> >>
> >>> degree kit?
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- Kurt Nolte <syncronized_turbo at yahoo.co.uk>
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> For those who might be interested, I'm not
> really
> >>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>> the UK; a misclick
> >>>> and a slip of the finger resulted in me getting
> >>>>
> >> UK
> >>
> >>>> rather than US while
> >>>> registering for the address, but I really don't
> >>>> mind. Stands out, for
> >>>> sure, and the ads are at least a different step
> >>>>
> >> from
> >>
> >>>> the usual US
> >>>> oriented ones.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm in the Southeastern US. If anyone's
> >>>>
> >> interested
> >>
> >>>> enough they'd like
> >>>> pictures of the conversion vehicle, just lemme
> >>>>
> >> know
> >>
> >>>> and I'll go out and
> >>>> snap the pics you want to see.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Kurt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
>
___________________________________________________________
> >
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> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> David Cook
> >>> Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
> >>> Red '90 g60 Corrado
> >>> Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
> >>> and others in various states of disrepair
> >>> Pictures here:
> >>>
> >> community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > David Cook
> > Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
> > Red '90 g60 Corrado
> > Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
> > and others in various states of disrepair
> > Pictures here:
> community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
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David Cook
Red '86 Cabriolet Diesel Powered
Red '90 g60 Corrado
Brown and White '78 Westy Campmobile "Bear"
and others in various states of disrepair
Pictures here: community.webshots.com/user/superdave5599
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