[Vwdiesel] coolant questions

Val Christian val at mongo.mongobird.com
Tue Dec 18 07:01:07 PST 2007


> Sorry, I didn't want to sound like a know it all.

	Didn't to me.  Your questions and comments were jsut fine.

> I had this problem too about 2 years ago, and decided it would be a good
> start to remove the thermostat and check. Sure enough, it was stuck shut and
> was causing the engine to boil over.

	Absolutely.  Thermostats fail.  I've even had them fall
	apart.  I'll NEVER use a Standt thermostat again.  

	On a VW, the thermostat is such a pain to remove and get to, that
	I'd only use high end / OEM units. When you can get 195F 
	units, although I have only found 180F as of late.  I suppose
	if you live in FL or other hot spots the 180 might be
	better.



> 
> I actually have a related question.
> 
> I have been noticing, though I assume this is only due to the cold weather,
> that after my engine heats up to its normal running temp, one I reach
> highway speeds, it will cool down all the way to the point below the cold
> start temperature. Is that normal for cold weather?

	Now that sounds like a stuck thermostat.  I'd pull it before it
	sticks the other way.




> 
> On Dec 18, 2007 9:28 AM, Val Christian <val at mongo.mongobird.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Wouldn't that be apparent though? A leaking head gasket would have
> > coolant
> > > seeping out of it wouldn't it? Not to say that you are wrong, I just
> > want to
> > > know so I know what I am looking at if this ever happens to me.
> >
> >        No it could be internal, from the cylinder to the coolant.
> >        I've seen these more often than leaking coolant to the outside.
> >
> > >
> > > It wouldn't hurt to check the thermostat wouldn't it?
> >
> >        I'd agree with that.  A passive IR thermometer could be
> >        your friend.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Dec 18, 2007 9:22 AM, Val Christian <val at mongo.mongobird.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Your head gasket may be leaking under high pressure, probably with the
> > > > engine cold at startup.  As the engine heats up, the leaking may
> > reduce.
> > > > The system stays pressurized at the cap pressure, and may depressurize
> > > > as it cools, when the gas is mostly watervapor.  When it's exhaust
> > > > gases, it doesn't shrink as much when it cools.  Also pockets
> > > > of gas in the engine will push the coolant out.
> > > >
> > > > You might do an experimental run with the pressure cap off, and keep
> > > > adding fluid (i'd dilute to something like 30/70h2o, to save money)
> > > > and see what happens as you idle and lightly run the engine.
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking you're right...head gasket.  Over the years Ive seen
> > dozens
> > > > of hg fail on VW, and yours is behaving that way.
> > > >
> > > > Having said all that, you want to make sure that you don't have air in
> > the
> > > > system, and that you are not getting hot spots, and that the cooling
> > > > system
> > > > gets every chance to work properly.  Run it unpressurized, and top it
> > off,
> > > > and then see what happens.  Meanwhile, I'd plan the HG replacement.
> > > > It's not too bad of a job, but you will probably want to have the head
> > > > serviced while it's of.  With no complications, and not counting time
> > > > going to the machine shop for the head, I figure about 4 to 5 hours
> > > > for the job.  First time doing it, and I'd budget 15 or 20.  Perhaps
> > > > others can chime in with their experience.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck.
> > > >
> > > > ps: Forget the headgasket in a bottle repairs.  Gassers may have a 8:1
> > > > vs a 22.5:1 compression ratio.
> > > >
> > > > pps: Before you pull your head, if you do, please do a compression
> > check
> > > > on a reasonably warm (100F??) engine.  Then you have a baseline.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a high temp indication and found the reservoir empty. I filled
> > it
> > > > and
> > > > > still had a high temp indication. When I checked the reservoir it
> > was
> > > > under
> > > > > pressure after sitting all night and blew coolant all over the
> > ground
> > > > when I
> > > > > took off the cap. I siphoned off some coolant to get the level below
> > the
> > > > > return line from the radiator. It was real cold the next night and
> > the
> > > > gage
> > > > > said it was running hot again. When I checked he coolant, it was
> > gone
> > > > from
> > > > > the reservoir.
> > > > >
> > > > > I filled it again and started it and there is not immediate
> > pressure,
> > > > like
> > > > > I'd expect from a blown head gasket. It this how a dead thermostat
> > > > works?
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > > > > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > > > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stephen T. Kraus Jr.
> > > Home: (423)NONE
> > > UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com;
> > >
> > > ------=_Part_13127_26131297.1197987943409
> > > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > > Content-Disposition: inline
> > >
> > > Wouldn&#39;t that be apparent though? A leaking head gasket would have
> > coolant seeping out of it wouldn&#39;t it? Not to say that you are wrong, I
> > just want to know so I know what I am looking at if this ever happens to me.
> > > <br><br>It wouldn&#39;t hurt to check the thermostat wouldn&#39;t
> > it?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 18, 2007 9:22 AM, Val Christian
> > &lt;<a href="mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com">val at mongo.mongobird.com</a>&gt;
> > wrote:
> > > <br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
> > rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Your
> > head gasket may be leaking under high pressure, probably with the<br>engine
> > cold at startup. &nbsp;As the engine heats up, the leaking may reduce.
> > > <br>The system stays pressurized at the cap pressure, and may
> > depressurize<br>as it cools, when the gas is mostly watervapor. &nbsp;When
> > it&#39;s exhaust<br>gases, it doesn&#39;t shrink as much when it cools.
> > &nbsp;Also pockets<br>
> > > of gas in the engine will push the coolant out.<br><br>You might do an
> > experimental run with the pressure cap off, and keep<br>adding fluid
> > (i&#39;d dilute to something like 30/70h2o, to save money)<br>and see what
> > happens as you idle and lightly run the engine.
> > > <br><br>I&#39;m thinking you&#39;re right...head gasket. &nbsp;Over the
> > years Ive seen dozens<br>of hg fail on VW, and yours is behaving that
> > way.<br><br>Having said all that, you want to make sure that you don&#39;t
> > have air in the
> > > <br>system, and that you are not getting hot spots, and that the cooling
> > system<br>gets every chance to work properly. &nbsp;Run it unpressurized,
> > and top it off,<br>and then see what happens. &nbsp;Meanwhile, I&#39;d plan
> > the HG replacement.
> > > <br>It&#39;s not too bad of a job, but you will probably want to have
> > the head<br>serviced while it&#39;s of. &nbsp;With no complications, and not
> > counting time<br>going to the machine shop for the head, I figure about 4 to
> > 5 hours
> > > <br>for the job. &nbsp;First time doing it, and I&#39;d budget 15 or 20.
> > &nbsp;Perhaps<br>others can chime in with their experience.<br><br>Good
> > luck.<br><br>ps: Forget the headgasket in a bottle repairs. &nbsp;Gassers
> > may have a 8:1<br>
> > > vs a 22.5:1 compression ratio.<br><br>pps: Before you pull your head, if
> > you do, please do a compression check<br>on a reasonably warm (100F??)
> > engine. &nbsp;Then you have a baseline.<br><div><div></div><div
> > class="Wj3C7c"><br>
> > > <br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; I had a high temp indication and found the
> > reservoir empty. I filled it and<br>&gt; still had a high temp indication.
> > When I checked the reservoir it was under<br>&gt; pressure after sitting all
> > night and blew coolant all over the ground when I
> > > <br>&gt; took off the cap. I siphoned off some coolant to get the level
> > below the<br>&gt; return line from the radiator. It was real cold the next
> > night and the gage<br>&gt; said it was running hot again. When I checked he
> > coolant, it was gone from
> > > <br>&gt; the reservoir.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I filled it again and started it
> > and there is not immediate pressure, like<br>&gt; I&#39;d expect from a
> > blown head gasket. It this how a dead thermostat works?<br>&gt;<br>&gt;
> > _______________________________________________
> > > <br>&gt; Vwdiesel mailing list<br>&gt; <a href="mailto:
> > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a><br>&gt; <a href="
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> > >
> > </a><br>&gt;<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Vwdiesel
> > mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a><br><a
> > href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">
> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br
> > clear="all"><br>-- <br>Stephen T. Kraus Jr.<br>Home: (423)NONE<br><a
> > href="mailto:UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com">UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com
> > > </a>;
> > >
> > > ------=_Part_13127_26131297.1197987943409--
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stephen T. Kraus Jr.
> Home: (423)NONE
> UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com;
> 
> ------=_Part_13146_10535447.1197988364674
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
> 
> Sorry, I didn&#39;t want to sound like a know it all.<br><br>I had this problem too about 2 years ago, and decided it would be a good start to remove the thermostat and check. Sure enough, it was stuck shut and was causing the engine to boil over.
> <br><br>I actually have a related question.<br><br>I have been noticing, though I assume this is only due to the cold weather, that after my engine heats up to its normal running temp, one I reach highway speeds, it will cool down all the way to the point below the cold start temperature. Is that normal for cold weather?
> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 18, 2007 9:28 AM, Val Christian &lt;<a href="mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com">val at mongo.mongobird.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> <div class="Ih2E3d">&gt; Wouldn&#39;t that be apparent though? A leaking head gasket would have coolant<br>&gt; seeping out of it wouldn&#39;t it? Not to say that you are wrong, I just want to<br>&gt; know so I know what I am looking at if this ever happens to me.
> <br><br></div> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;No it could be internal, from the cylinder to the coolant.<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I&#39;ve seen these more often than leaking coolant to the outside.<br><div class="Ih2E3d"><br>&gt;<br>&gt; It wouldn&#39;t hurt to check the thermostat wouldn&#39;t it?
> <br><br></div> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I&#39;d agree with that. &nbsp;A passive IR thermometer could be<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;your friend.<br><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; On Dec 18, 2007 9:22 AM, Val Christian &lt;<a href="mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com">
> val at mongo.mongobird.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Your head gasket may be leaking under high pressure, probably with the<br>&gt; &gt; engine cold at startup. &nbsp;As the engine heats up, the leaking may reduce.<br>&gt; &gt; The system stays pressurized at the cap pressure, and may depressurize
> <br>&gt; &gt; as it cools, when the gas is mostly watervapor. &nbsp;When it&#39;s exhaust<br>&gt; &gt; gases, it doesn&#39;t shrink as much when it cools. &nbsp;Also pockets<br>&gt; &gt; of gas in the engine will push the coolant out.
> <br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; You might do an experimental run with the pressure cap off, and keep<br>&gt; &gt; adding fluid (i&#39;d dilute to something like 30/70h2o, to save money)<br>&gt; &gt; and see what happens as you idle and lightly run the engine.
> <br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; I&#39;m thinking you&#39;re right...head gasket. &nbsp;Over the years Ive seen dozens<br>&gt; &gt; of hg fail on VW, and yours is behaving that way.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Having said all that, you want to make sure that you don&#39;t have air in the
> <br>&gt; &gt; system, and that you are not getting hot spots, and that the cooling<br>&gt; &gt; system<br>&gt; &gt; gets every chance to work properly. &nbsp;Run it unpressurized, and top it off,<br>&gt; &gt; and then see what happens. &nbsp;Meanwhile, I&#39;d plan the HG replacement.
> <br>&gt; &gt; It&#39;s not too bad of a job, but you will probably want to have the head<br>&gt; &gt; serviced while it&#39;s of. &nbsp;With no complications, and not counting time<br>&gt; &gt; going to the machine shop for the head, I figure about 4 to 5 hours
> <br>&gt; &gt; for the job. &nbsp;First time doing it, and I&#39;d budget 15 or 20. &nbsp;Perhaps<br>&gt; &gt; others can chime in with their experience.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Good luck.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; ps: Forget the headgasket in a bottle repairs. &nbsp;Gassers may have a 8:1
> <br>&gt; &gt; vs a 22.5:1 compression ratio.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; pps: Before you pull your head, if you do, please do a compression check<br>&gt; &gt; on a reasonably warm (100F??) engine. &nbsp;Then you have a baseline.
> <br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I had a high temp indication and found the reservoir empty. I filled it<br>&gt; &gt; and<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; still had a high temp indication. When I checked the reservoir it was
> <br>&gt; &gt; under<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; pressure after sitting all night and blew coolant all over the ground<br>&gt; &gt; when I<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; took off the cap. I siphoned off some coolant to get the level below the<br>
> &gt; &gt; &gt; return line from the radiator. It was real cold the next night and the<br>&gt; &gt; gage<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; said it was running hot again. When I checked he coolant, it was gone<br>&gt; &gt; from<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; the reservoir.
> <br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I filled it again and started it and there is not immediate pressure,<br>&gt; &gt; like<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I&#39;d expect from a blown head gasket. It this how a dead thermostat<br>&gt; &gt; works?
> <br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vwdiesel mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a><br>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
> <a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel</a><br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________
> <br>&gt; &gt; Vwdiesel mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a><br>&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> </a><br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; --<br>&gt; Stephen T. Kraus Jr.<br>&gt; Home: (423)NONE<br>&gt; <a href="mailto:UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com">UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com</a>;<br>&gt;<br></div></div>&gt; ------=_Part_13127_26131297.1197987943409
> <br>&gt; Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>&gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>&gt; Content-Disposition: inline<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Wouldn&amp;#39;t that be apparent though? A leaking head gasket would have coolant seeping out of it wouldn&amp;#39;t it? Not to say that you are wrong, I just want to know so I know what I am looking at if this ever happens to me.
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It wouldn&amp;#39;t hurt to check the thermostat wouldn&amp;#39;t it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;gmail_quote&quot;&gt;On Dec 18, 2007 9:22 AM, Val Christian &amp;lt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:
> <a href="mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com">val at mongo.mongobird.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com">val at mongo.mongobird.com</a>&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote class=&quot;gmail_quote&quot; style=&quot;border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 
> 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;&quot;&gt;Your head gasket may be leaking under high pressure, probably with the&lt;br&gt;engine cold at startup. &amp;nbsp;As the engine heats up, the leaking may reduce.<br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;The system stays pressurized at the cap pressure, and may depressurize&lt;br&gt;as it cools, when the gas is mostly watervapor. &amp;nbsp;When it&amp;#39;s exhaust&lt;br&gt;gases, it doesn&amp;#39;t shrink as much when it cools. &amp;nbsp;Also pockets&lt;br&gt;
> <br>&gt; of gas in the engine will push the coolant out.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You might do an experimental run with the pressure cap off, and keep&lt;br&gt;adding fluid (i&amp;#39;d dilute to something like 30/70h2o, to save money)&lt;br&gt;and see what happens as you idle and lightly run the engine.
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&amp;#39;m thinking you&amp;#39;re right...head gasket. &amp;nbsp;Over the years Ive seen dozens&lt;br&gt;of hg fail on VW, and yours is behaving that way.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Having said all that, you want to make sure that you don&amp;#39;t have air in the
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;system, and that you are not getting hot spots, and that the cooling system&lt;br&gt;gets every chance to work properly. &amp;nbsp;Run it unpressurized, and top it off,&lt;br&gt;and then see what happens. &amp;nbsp;Meanwhile, I&amp;#39;d plan the HG replacement.
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;It&amp;#39;s not too bad of a job, but you will probably want to have the head&lt;br&gt;serviced while it&amp;#39;s of. &amp;nbsp;With no complications, and not counting time&lt;br&gt;going to the machine shop for the head, I figure about 4 to 5 hours
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;for the job. &amp;nbsp;First time doing it, and I&amp;#39;d budget 15 or 20. &amp;nbsp;Perhaps&lt;br&gt;others can chime in with their experience.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Good luck.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;ps: Forget the headgasket in a bottle repairs. &amp;nbsp;Gassers may have a 8:1&lt;br&gt;
> <br>&gt; vs a 22.5:1 compression ratio.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;pps: Before you pull your head, if you do, please do a compression check&lt;br&gt;on a reasonably warm (100F??) engine. &amp;nbsp;Then you have a baseline.&lt;br&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;Wj3C7c&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; I had a high temp indication and found the reservoir empty. I filled it and&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; still had a high temp indication. When I checked the reservoir it was under&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; pressure after sitting all night and blew coolant all over the ground when I
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; took off the cap. I siphoned off some coolant to get the level below the&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; return line from the radiator. It was real cold the next night and the gage&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; said it was running hot again. When I checked he coolant, it was gone from
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; the reservoir.&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; I filled it again and started it and there is not immediate pressure, like&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; I&amp;#39;d expect from a blown head gasket. It this how a dead thermostat works?&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; _______________________________________________
> <br>&gt; &lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; Vwdiesel mailing list&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a>
> &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href=&quot;<a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel</a>&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;<a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel</a><br>&gt; &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;_______________________________________________&lt;br&gt;Vwdiesel mailing list&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:
> <a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:Vwdiesel at vwfans.com">Vwdiesel at vwfans.com</a>&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel</a>&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;<br>&gt; <a href="http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel" target="_blank">http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> </a>&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br clear=&quot;all&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;-- &lt;br&gt;Stephen T. Kraus Jr.&lt;br&gt;Home: (423)NONE&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:
> <a href="mailto:UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com">UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com">UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com</a><br>&gt; &lt;/a&gt;;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; ------=_Part_13127_26131297.1197987943409--
> <br>&gt;<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Stephen T. Kraus Jr.<br>Home: (423)NONE<br><a href="mailto:UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com">UB3RATL4Sf00 at gmail.com</a>;
> 
> ------=_Part_13146_10535447.1197988364674--
> 



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