[Vwdiesel] Eco Diesel conversion to non eco? (fwd)

Val Christian val at mongo.mongobird.com
Mon May 21 09:27:23 EDT 2007 

Scott,

My mistake...the 78 was $5500, and the 79 was $6500.

Val

Forwarded message:
> Scott,
> 
> My new 78 Rabbit Diesel was about $6500, as I recall.  My new 79
> was about $7500.  Those may have been the delivered price.  The
> $10,200 for the 91 was the before taxes price.  At that point, I
> considered it cheap.  My 2003 TDI prior to taxes was $18,300, 
> approximately, which although I didn't want to buy it at the time, 
> seemed like a reasonable price.
> 
> Val
> 
> > 
> >  Val,
> > 	Indeed. I forgot to mention that in 91 there were some non-Ecos
> > imported. I've wondered whether those were more scarce than the Ecos. I'd
> > have to dig through my files, but IIRC, that time frame was also close to
> > the Great CARB Fiasco, when California mandated no sulfur fuel and blew out
> > nearly every injection pump in the Golden State. CARB eventually began
> > circulating a report from the Health Effects Institute blaming Diesel fumes
> > for every respiratory disorder in the country, and it looked for awhile like
> > the future of Diesel engines in the states was in doubt. In retrospect, it's
> > no wonder that VW withheld Diesels from our market for a few years. 
> > 	It's rather amazing that with inflation allegedly under control,
> > prices rose from $4500 for a new 81 Caddy to $10,200 for your 91 to $20k +
> > for a new TDI. 
> > 	Scott 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Val Christian [mailto:val at mongo.mongobird.com] 
> > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 5:02 AM
> > To: Scott Kair
> > Cc: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Eco Diesel conversion to non eco?
> > 
> > Scott,
> > 
> > That's about the story.  I bought a 91, non-eco, avoiding what I perceived
> > as a more complicated eco.  The sales people told me that there would be
> > 92 ecos.  But they would most likely stop in 93.  They sold every diesel
> > without a problem, but VW didn't export many.  I was also told that the
> > market was MUCH better in Europe, and that was where VW was focusing.
> > 
> > Don't know the numbers, except that the asking was $10,600, and I paid
> > $10,200.  Basically they heard that I was calling around, and found the same
> > car in Elmira, NY for $10,200.  
> > 
> > Some 91s were ecos.  Mine was manufactured in 2/91, bought in 6/91.
> > 
> > Val
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > >  	Mine, a 1992, didn't. But it also didn't have a 140 mph speedometer.
> > > >From what I've gathered about the Eco, VW was winding down production 
> > > >of the
> > > 1.6 and knew that either 91 or 92 would be the last model year they 
> > > were exported to the states. Sales had flattened due to cheap fuel 
> > > after oil war I, the mark was up a bit relative to the dollar, and the 
> > > 1.9 L was nearing production.
> > > 	Various figures have been floated for total production of the Eco, 
> > > generally under 1500 units for both model years, but I'm suspicious of 
> > > the figures; they seem to be rather available for such limited production.
> > > Perhaps near the end of the production run, parts like instrument 
> > > clusters were just grabbed off the shelf and installed. That's just 
> > > speculation, though.
> > > 	Scott
> > > 	
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David Cook [mailto:vwdieselbunny at yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:33 PM
> > > To: scott3491 at insightbb.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Eco Diesel conversion to non eco?
> > > 
> > > So the eco didn't come with a tach?
> > > 
> > > David
> > > 
> > > --- Scott Kair <scott3491 at insightbb.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 	With a real & tuned pump and an exhaust system bigger around than a 
> > > > pencil, I'd expect better fuel economy, too. In town, it was about 
> > > > the only one of my VWD's that accelerated as well as the rest of the 
> > > > traffic from stop lights. Since it lacked a tach, I could only guess 
> > > > that the rpms were considerably higher at hiway speeds; 80 was no 
> > > > problem, aside from increased vibration and noise.
> > > > 	Of course, my own standard for comparison was my late Quantum. :)
> > > > 	I got lucky and found a fan connector belt in a yard, but having 
> > > > the
> > > 
> > > > driven fan bearing lock up is very disconcerting. We tried adapting 
> > > > a Quantum dual fan setup, but couldn't make it fit.
> > > > Don't know whether any
> > > > gassers have the driven fan setup. 
> > > > 	To get to the dicey interlock wires, you have to remove the plastic 
> > > > cover that's at the top hanger by the door pillar post, iirc. 
> > > > They're a very small gauge.
> > > > 	The flickering brake light might be low fluid at the m/c or the 
> > > > parking brake handle not quite hitting the switch plunger directly.
> > > > 	Take care,
> > > > 	Scott
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com
> > > > [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On Behalf Of mikitka
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:32 AM
> > > > To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Eco Diesel conversion to non eco?
> > > > 
> > > > Let's see, my ECO is now a TD in a sense. I put the LDA on the pump 
> > > > and had Giles at Superior Injection work his magic on it. I had the 
> > > > little K14 turbo rebuilt and now I can hear it whistle. It didn't do 
> > > > that before I sent it off. I get around 15psi boost now and limited 
> > > > it to that. Not efficient past that from what I am told. I do get a 
> > > > fast spool up right from idle which I can feel in the seat of the 
> > > > pants. As for highway running, I think I get it motivated well. I 
> > > > can pass and cruise at 70 to 80mph with no issues.
> > > > 
> > > > As for economy with the less than stellar tranny from what I hear I 
> > > > have gotten a best of 52mpg and an average back and forth to work of
> > > > 47 mpg. I don't think that is too bad.
> > > > 
> > > > I did open up the exhaust and put a 2.5 inch down pipe on it and 2.5 
> > > > inch system all the way back and took the cat off.
> > > > Illegal, probably but it makes
> > > > it run so much better and around here it isn't checked for emissions 
> > > > anyway.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the tip on the seat belt. Now to get to the wires and put 
> > > > them together. My seat belt light flickers every now and then as 
> > > > does my brake light now.
> > > > 
> > > > As for the cooling fans, now that is something to start worrying 
> > > > about. Not fun and from my understanding they are hard to find.
> > > > Any ideas as to will
> > > > other year set ups work that I can get to have on hand when mine go 
> > > > out?
> > > > 
> > > > One thing though that I don't understand is why I have a 140mph 
> > > > speedometer and all the others I have seen are 120mph. It is the 
> > > > original instrument cluster from what I can tell. I don't have the 
> > > > shift dots either. If I could find another ECO I would grab it in a 
> > > > heart beat.
> > > > 
> > > > Nick
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 	The smaller turbo was included not to increase power, but in order
> > > to
> > > > inject enough oxygen to reduce emissions. The aneroid was deleted 
> > > > because it adds fuel at higher rpm, and that would have shortened 
> > > > the life of the catalytic converter. That was their story and they 
> > > > stuck to it.
> > > > 	The smaller turbo spools up at lower rpm than conventional turbos, 
> > > > but also flattens out sooner. It accelerates from stoplights better, 
> > > > but power falls off sooner on hiways.
> > > > 	The transmission seems to be a unique code, too.
> > > > The engine spins
> > > > perceptibly higher at hiway speeds, which decreases fuel economy 
> > > > noticeably.
> > > > 
> > > > 	In order to duplicate the performance of, say, a
> > > > 1989 A2 TD, you'd
> > > > have to replace the pump with one that has an aneroid, retrofit a 
> > > > conventional exhaust system- which might not be
> > > > legal- and give serious
> > > > thought to replacing the tranny with one that has longer legs.
> > > > 	The cooling fans are linked by a belt that's about the size of a 
> > > > shoestring and cracks from age and heat. The driven fan bearing will 
> > > > freeze and take out the belt as well as the primary fan and motor.
> > > > Removing the belt and letting it run on the primary fan will work 
> > > > until hot weather, when it's unable to cool the engine sufficiently, 
> > > > especially with the a/c on.
> > > > 	The wires on the seat belt interlock will eventually crack, find 
> > > > their own ground, and disable the starting system.
> > > > Splice them together
> > > > before this happens.
> > > > 	Cheers,
> > > > 	Scott Kair
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> > > 
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