[Vwdiesel] Age, Diesel History, and Bonus TDI Tragedy

[Tad]

Re: drive-by-wire throttle - from my research and experience (such as it
is), the DBW is one of the more reliable parts of the car (electrics
anyway).  The throttle position sensor is redundant (there's a backup sender
and if one fails it will trip the CEL) but it seems to very rarely fail.

Chris - assuming you're talking about stalling the car (the only use of the
word 'snub' I know is Webster's #3, "to treat with contempt or neglect <snub
an old acquaintance>", but I see there's also "to check or stop with a
cutting retort *:* rebuke <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rebuke>"),
I haven't driven an 09 but I've found that TDIs (and maybe diesels in
general) are a lot easier to stall than a gasser.

Well, let me qualify that - they are simultaneously both easier and harder
to stall... the massive torque gives you plenty of power at idle, but if you
happen to let the clutch out a bit too fast and the RPM drops below the
magic number, *bam* it stops on a dime.  A gasser generally gives you a lot
of stumbling/bucking warning that you're pushing it, but my TDI just quits
without warning when you go too far.  That took some getting used to.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Chris Geiser <cfgeiser at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not much to add to the conversation except a comment on the drive by
> wire...
>
> My wifes '09 TDI is the most "snubbable" car I've ever been in - I've been
> driving stick since I was 6 and learned to drive the old Kaiser Jeep; never
> owned an automatic car...  and this is the only car I've snubbed in the
> last
> many many years, and it happens at least once just about every time I drive
> it.  I attribute it to a slight delay in the processing of the accelerator
> signal - it's a fraction of a second delay, but it doesn't feel like any
> other vehicle I've driven - so the clutch / accelerator timing just doesn't
> feel right.
>
> I only know one other person with a late model TDI, and they say the same
> thing about their car.  Any one else seeing this?  Pretty annoying...
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Patrick Dolan <pmdolan at sasktel.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I wish I knew the answer to dealer technical incompetence.  I came into
> > this business as a mechanic many decades ago, and over the 70s went into
> > management and became a dealer principal.  I had my fill of retail
> business
> > by 1980 and moved on, but I could already see the nature of the business
> > changing.  It's not just a VW thing, it is a North American thing.  Money
> > has become the religion of the continent, and there is no honour in work.
> >  In Germany, a person becomes a tradesman, and rises threough the ranks
> by
> > becoming a Master tradesman who is a respected member of society as well
> as
> > the workplace - here we interpret "improving" or lot with getting OUT of
> the
> > trades and we measure that success by how much money you are making.  Why
> > would a really smart mechanic or parts guy stay in the trade, make
> relative
> > peanunts and GET NO RESPECT when he can easily go to Wall Street and
> share
> > in $18Bn worth of bonuses at Goldman Sachs?  On top of that, consumerism
> > (part of the same cree
> > d of greed) has resulted in unrealistic expectations (always blame somone
> > else, everyone else owes us a living).  None of this will change until we
> > have a quantum shift in cultural aligment - and from the latest lack of
> > change while the US economy re-structures itself to further
> > rule-by-special-interest, it isn't going to happen.
> >
> > I am not in the lubricants business any more, so I will qualify these
> > comments with that statement first.  Be careful around Amsoil.  While
> they
> > claim compliance to any particular standard, at least in my day, they
> > refused to submit to any actual testing to qualify - relying instead on
> > advertising claims.  Refer to the previous paragraph to know what I think
> > about that.  I can tell you, though, that when such a weird and demanding
> > spec is written, there is a good reason (note I said this without once
> > attacking the incompetent engineers who would foist the design of PD
> engines
> > on an unsuspecting public).  The wide variety of oils are to meet the
> > greatly increased demands on oil specifications to be able to meet
> corporate
> > average fuel economy, emissions and engine life REQUIREMENTS - for once
> we
> > actually gain from government interventiion into our marketplace.  All of
> > the European majors meet Euro specs - Agip, Repsol, BP, Shell, etc. with
> > products in their market.
> >
> > Sad about the probability of Toyota getting a pass while Audi was
> hammered
> > nearly to death in the US market - for something related to consumer
> > ineptitude, not design oversight.  Yes, VW used electronic foot feed an
> all
> > TDI and FSI.  No real reason to run a cable anywhere because it would
> just
> > be connected to the computer there anyhow.  Just be happy that Bill Gates
> > doesn't sell the software in your ECU (although much of the programming
> and
> > diagnostics DO rely on a Windows environment).  Other than physical
> damage,
> > I have NEVER heard of an ECU "shutting down" in normal operation.
> >
> > Electric power steering is not electronic, it is merely assissted by an
> > electric power source, as is old fashioned power steering merely assisted
> by
> > a hydraulic power source.  Difference is, the electric one is easier to
> > control electronically - and is much more energy (read FUEL) efficient.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William J Toensing <toensing at wildblue.net>
> > Date: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:25 am
> > Subject: [Vwdiesel] Age, Diesel History, and Bonus TDI Tragedy
> >
> > > This has been an interesting discussion, that of VW Dealer
> > > incompetence. VW America must have forgotten what gave VW its good
> > > reputation back in the 1950s & 1960s & the huge import market
> > > share prior to the 1970s when the Japanese took it away, or maybe
> > > that VW gave to them on a silver platter. However, there must be
> > > some VW dealers with reliable service departments. Those that are
> > > should be given recognition.
> > > The discussion about VW dealers not using VW spec oil is very
> > > interesting. I have often wondered why Amsoil makes so many
> > > varieties of synthetic oils.They make a "Synthetic 5W-40 European
> > > Motor Oil that meets VW specifications 502.00, 505.00, &505.01.
> > > How that varies from other synthetic oils, I don't know. I wonder
> > > what other oils meet these VW specs?
> > > Lately, Toyota has been in the recall news for unintended
> > > acceleration which they blamed on floor mats but appears to be a
> > > mal-function of their "fly by wire" accelerator control. Does
> > > anyone know if VW uses the same system on their new "clean diesel"
> > > TDIs? This is one of the reasons why I prefer manual
> > > transmissions. At least if the engine runs away you can shift into
> > > neutral. Most automatics have neutral too. I wonder if you can
> > > shift a Prius into neutral if this happens? In multi-million $
> > > airliners & other aircraft they have many expensive backup systems
> > > for the "fly by wire" controls but the only back up systems in
> > > cars that I know of is the dual master cylinder brakes. I hope the
> > > new electric power steering units that replace hydraulic power
> > > steering still have manual connections if the electrics fail. Ever
> > > have your computer freeze up? I want my car electronics in new
> > > cars to be more reliable than my computer.
> > > Bill Toensing
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> > >
> >
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