[Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug question

Thu Jul 29 14:22:08 PDT 2010

Long solved problem in a long, tiring to read thread. Ark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Cook" <davevw at yahoo.com>
To: "VW Diesel Group" <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Not Deisel,just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug 
question

Saw this tip in a motorcycle forum, don't know why it wouldn't help on a car 
too.  Anyway, I can't imagine it would possibly hurt anything other than 
maybe wasting some time.

To help remove tiny air bubbles that may remain in the system, pressurize it 
for several hours, overnight at least.  Do so by pressing the pedal somehow. 
(And make sure that the brake light isn't on, may need to pull a fuse, so 
the battery doesn't run down.)

The pressure is supposed to somehow cause any little bubbles to collect 
together and float together out of the lines.

On a motorcycle, it would be a short, uphill travel, so maybe a re-bleed 
would be necessary on a car, but if it is all collected together into one 
larger bubble, it should be easier to get out.

Dave Cook

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Andrew .Libby <libbybapa at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Andrew .Libby <libbybapa at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake bleeding hell on a VW bug 
> question
> To: "Bryan Belman" <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 4:40 PM
> I usually bleed the brakes until I
> have replaced all of the fluid. Usually
> there is some air hiding just before the new fluid.
> Getting that out
> usually takes more than 6-7 pumps for the rear cylinders.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks all, here is a summery, this job is not done
> yet.
> > ALL brake hoses, hard lines and front wheel cylinders
> were replaced on this
> > car
> > in the past 2-3 years. This is a 72 Super
> Beetle
> >
> >
> >
> > LESSON LEARNED at age 46, working on VW's for many
> years, brain walls to
> > thick
> > to learn this lesson.
> > DO the Easy things FIRST.
> >
> > So, with a brake job.
> > Adjust brake shoes out to drag and back off, don't
> just look at them, move
> > the
> > adjusters to be sure.
> > Bleed brakes, I used Loren's method this time around:
> 4 steps, 2 people
> > needed.
> > 1. open valve
> > 2. other person pushes
> brake peddle 1/2 way down and you listen for
> > bubbles
> > or fluid
> > 3. close valve
> > 4. tell helper to let up
> on the brake peddle.
> >
> > I did this starting with each connection to the brake
> lines at the new
> > master
> > cylinder. I had previously put the new master in
> a coffee can of new brake
> > fluid and pumped the piston no more then 3/4 of an
> inch to get fluid into
> > the
> > thing.
> >
> > I still heard some air coming out of the master and
> after 4 or 5 shots, all
> > fluid.
> >
> > Then moved back to Rt. rear wheel, 6 to 7 shots there
> to get all the air
> > out.
> > then Lf. rear wheel
> > then Rt. front wheel
> > last, Lf. front wheel.
> >
> > I got good flow surprisingly from this simple method
> of bleeding but I am
> > going
> > to be making a pressure bleeder for ANY future brake
> work.
> >
> > So, get back in the car, the peddle is still traveling
> way to far down but
> > is
> > solid.
> >
> > Next I adjusted the front shoes, they were ok but I
> got them a little
> > closer
> > with some drag, that help bring the peddle up a little
> bit.
> > Then went to back brake shoe adjustment and I could
> only adjust 1 shoe in
> > each
> > rear wheel as the other adjuster is frozen SOLID.
> > E-Brake handle comes up pretty
> far. This was the issue all along I
> > think.
> > They guy who did the brake replacement job some years
> ago most likely did
> > not
> > remove the rear brake drums or did not bother trying
> to free up the frozen
> > adjusters and turned the screw out that holds the
> shoe. I would say only a
> > few
> > hundred miles have been put on this car since the
> brakes were done, so it
> > is not
> > brake shoe ware down.
> >
> > So, before I see if they lady will even want me to
> finish the job to test
> > my
> > theory.
> > If I pull up on the e-brake a bit, just before it
> catches and step on the
> > brakes
> > and the peddle is not much higher, that is my issues,
> the shoes have to be
> > pushed to far in the back to stop. Pulling up on
> the e-brake will move
> > them out
> > for me first.
> >
> > The other option here is the drums are beyond the ware
> limits, they seem to
> > be
> > original. I do not have the tool to measure
> them.
> >
> >
> > Last thing, on a bug rear wheel 36mm nuts, I seem to
> remember one of them
> > being
> > left hand threads, Rt. side maybe?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks all.
> > Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> > 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> > 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
> > 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
> > 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "dieseltdi at verizon.net"
> <dieseltdi at verizon.net>
> > To: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 7:56:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] Not Deisel, just brake
> bleeding hell on a VW bug
> > question
> >
> > Rubber brake hoses. Trust me on this, if they
> have any time on them, they
> > can
> > swell shut. You can sometimes pull a suction on
> them with out collapsing
> > them
> > but often times as soon as pressure from the master
> cylinder hits them they
> > shut
> > up tighter than a drum. If replacing the master
> cylinder still doesn't
> > work,
> > then the hoses are the next step. Actually they
> are pretty easy to
> > replace. I
> > know this from WAY, WAT to many brake jobs on WAY, WAY
> too many beetles,
> > buses
> > and Karmann Ghias. Hayden
> >
> > On Jul 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Bryan Belman wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all, I work on this ladies 72 super beetle
> from time to time, 95% rust
> > free,
> > > like working on history because so much of the
> car is still good.
> > > anyway, I have a 20 hour brake story, what am I
> doing wrong.
> > >
> > > starts out with soft to no brakes, OK, I can fix
> that for you.
> > > I have a mighty vac.
> > > It is not like the peddle will pump up, it just
> had little braking.
> > > Tried to vac. some fluid out of the lines, got
> very little and no air.
> > > ordered new master as this one was orig.
> > > * Super beetle master cyl. is different,
> did not know that.
> > >
> > > Dropped spacer sleeve into the abiss in the body,
> 1 hour tired to get it,
> > > removed peddle assm. 2 hours later I had cut a
> new one from similar pipe
> > stock.
> > >
> > > Put new master in, did not bench bleed it.
> > >
> > > nothing, could get very little suction with my
> might vac. to get good
> > flow of
> > > fluid from brake res. with fresh fluid in it.
> > > tried pumping, nothing, no peddle would come up
> even after pumping 20-30
> > times.
> > >
> > > **************
> > > I did press ALL THE WAY DOWN at times, maybe I
> blew it out here as you
> > are
> > >Never
> > > supposed to press it all the way?
> > > **************
> > >
> > > Took master off again to bench press after
> finding this great web sight.
> > Rob
> > >and
> > > Dave's Aircooled sight http://www.vw-resource.com/
> > >
> > > I pumped it in a can of brake fluid and left it
> sit for 3 days while I
> > was
> > away
> > > on a vw weekend.
> > > came home, put it back in on Monday night,
> nothing, no change.
> > > I would get just enough pressure to stop the
> wheels from spinning but
> > still
> > > would get little flow with mighty vac and I would
> things were looking
> > better
> > in
> > > the back, as soon as I would open the front Rt.
> side, nothing, could no
> > longer
> > > get enough to stop the wheels from spinning.
> > >
> > > Then went back to old fashion way, tried and
> true.
> > > My wife would pump the brake 7-10 times, hold it
> in, I would open the
> > bleeder
> > >to
> > > hose and clear bottle 1/2 full of fluid.
> Close it, she lets up on the
> > peddle
> > > and pumps again. OK on the back, when I get
> up front, nothing, I lose
> > all
> > > ground on getting any peddle pressure.
> > >
> > > So, back to square 1.
> > > Master cyl is out.
> > > I rent a brake pressure bleeder from Advance Auto
> Parts for FREE. It
> > works as
> > >a
> > > might vac OR you can fill the container on it and
> PUSH the fluid into the
> > >system
> > > with like 10psi, it even has a gauge. So, I
> do this to each circuit,
> > each
> > >wheel
> > > and I have a good steam of clean fluid coming out
> of each bleeder, 1 by
> > 1.
> > >
> > > Today I will get a Replacement super beetle
> master, but TRW brand, not
> > the KMM
> > > brand I got before.
> > > I Will bench bleed the new master cyl. out of the
> box before putting it
> > on the
> > > car, yes.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions before I pull the trigger.
> I can't charge her for more
> > then
> > > like 6 hours of this ordeal.
> > >
> > > AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> > >
> > >
> > > Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
> > > 04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD, 100hp, 5sp -- running :)
> > > 92 Jetta 1.6 Eco-Turbo Diesel -- running :}
> > > 82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA -- running :)
> > > 70 Type 1 stock Beetle -- Not running :(
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> >
> > " Those who are willing to sacrifice Liberty for
> Security, deserve neither
> > Liberty nor Security." Ben Franklin
> >
> >
> > Visit my website at: http://mysite.verizon.net/resosxp8/mydieselpages/
> > Proud owner of:
> > 2004 Jetta GL PD TDI, K&N Filter, ScanGauge II
> > 1968 Beetle, my latest project, watch for details
> > And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13
> Beetles total), to Vans (5
> > - 3
> > splitties, 2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon
> Westy, Rabbits (3),
> > Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (7), Passats (2), Dasher (1),
> New Beetle (1), and
> > Rabbit
> > Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vwdiesel mailing list
> > Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
> >
> _______________________________________________
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