[Vwdiesel] EPA things

Tue Jan 31 16:49:47 PST 2012

As long as it's only a little bit of venting Travis.  Keep up the good work,
cause the more that people think, something good might come out of the giant
cesspool that is the modern notion of green.  Take just diesel exhaust for
instance.  I could take a really really efficient older 855 cummins, replace
the injectors with more modern, and add a particulate, and urea nox filter,
and it's tier 4 compliant if done right.  Only trouble with this scenario,
is the add on package DOES NOT EXIST. Nothing has been done to address older
stuff, nothing.  If the powers that be actually gave a rat's patootie about
the environment, there would be a huge push for retrofit. But nada, I'm
supposed to pop 350K for a new one, and throw the old one away,like it was
disposable but we are talking about 2 and 300K$ pieces of iron, not some POS
car.
Same at the mine- why not retrofit an existing engine on a 500K machine
rather than waste all that energy changing motors.... just silly.

My pop's duramax is supposed to use 11 litres of fuel to burn off the
particulate filter.  ELEVEN.  screw that, the whole pipe and garbeurator is
sitting in the bush, with steel wool in both ends to keep out mice, so it
goes back on when he trades it in.  Between a Banks exhaust and chip the
truck went up 30% in economy, it doesn't smoke visibly, it's a grandpa's
truck that pulls a 5th wheeler.

Don't even get me started about the 92mpg VW Lupo that we had no hope of
getting here, because of EPA regs. 92 mpg.  yeah, terrible for the
environment that... or was it not allowed because Government Motors doesn't
make one? But I'm not getting dragged into that discussion.... heh...

-james

-----Original Message-----
From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On
Behalf Of Travis Gottschalk
Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM
To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] EPA things

Funny thing is the Gov was giving grants out to replace your engines on your
fleet if you could prove you needed/could use it at the coal mine. It seemed
funny that you had to punch a hole in the block of the older engine to
disable it. So basically you had to mine out the materials, ship parts from
accross the world, have techs driving back and forth to figure out how to
get it to work in your older machine all to save some fuel that just putting
a couple upgrades on the old engine would have netted the same results
(better turbos, injection system, intercooling, etc-same things we do to our
VW's already). 

Then there is the particulate trap thing I don't fully understand. So if you
don't drive faster then 45 (limited to 40 at the mine) you won't activate
the regen process to clear this thing out. So you are dumping raw fuel
through your engine to burn this trap out? How is that efficient? Then the
added heat of the rest of the engine components to due all these emisions
things (particulate trap is one heated thing that has to be close to the
engine to get the heat best, EGR as well) so then you need to have a larger
cooling system/fan to help prevent overheating robbing HP and MPG as well on
the bigger machines. I always laugh when I read about the people that want
to be fully "green" in their eyes. Do they know they would have to live in a
cave (so no trees are harmed and make sure a bear/wolf isn't already living
there so as to not disturb them either) and have to make there cloths out of
hemp (unprocessed) and eat just berries and grass? Them just typing an email
on their computer is going agaist there "green" things. Same as the new CA
law that a certain percentage of new cars sold must be hybrid/battery
operated. So you are telling me that a hybrid SUV getting 20MPG is better
then my diesel car getting in the 50's MPG? And all that electricity isn't
all that "green" either. And yes even natural gas has polution in some of
the steps to get it to the power plant (think-local water issues, also some
can start their water on fire). There-done venting a little bit

Travis G
> Oh, man, I know. Diesel makes the world go round, but gas drives those
that
> think the world revolves around them.
> 
> To an end user (me for instance), it would seem that great pains have been
> taken to improve air quality almost solely at the sacrifice of
efficiency...
> to the tune of about a 12 TO 25% increase in fuel usage moving from tier 2
> to tier 3 compliance in ag engines. Pretty much the same for other on and
> off road users with a wide variability in how the increased costs get
passed
> on. Now that we are in tier 4 transitional compliance, different
technology
> is being used (urea) which should bring fuel efficiency back up... maybe
for
> some anyway (not JD). But no matter how you look at it, efficiency is
> certainly not high on the want list of the rule makers. Kind of like
> natural selection, if you don't select for it, you don't get it, and
nobody
> in the north american engine market has been big on efficiency because it
> all hangs on nitrogen emissions. Some players have a lot of European
> exposure, which influences their engine design quite a bit it would seem.
> (fiat group- case, NH, etc)
> 
> Reasons vary, but mainly it was using EGR. It's like we are now replaying
> the "smog rules" engines cars used in the 1970's in offroad engines. They
> use EGR to keep the combustion chamber cool to not make NOX compounds, and
> surprise surprise, you have to use more fuel to get the same power. I
> distinctly remember the parents 1978 bronco that made a whopping 8mpg
> IMPERIAL right out of the box. You could quite easily confuse the
> speedometer with the gauge for the enormous fuel tank, both moved in
> concert, but different directions. 
> 
> At least those that are now using urea cat in tier 4 engines are able to
> bump timing and durations with high boost to get really hot combustion,
hot
> combustion chambers make more efficient power, it makes the particle trap
> work better too, then fix the nox with a urea cat. Overall efficiency is
> much much higher. Guys that I know that have bought the 350K new tractor
> are quite happy with them- they HAD to get rid of the fuel guzzler tier 3
> junk that it replaced. A big acre farmer can make a tractor payment on the
> difference in fuel use between tier 3 and 4 transitional engines.
> 
> I wonder Travis, since the EPA has been used as a trade manipulator for so
> long with air quality being the saw, if they would know what is good for
the
> environment even if it jumped up and bit them in the ass. Personally, I
kind
> of doubt it, it's still more enviropolitics than good intelligent use of
> resources in some kind of sustainable manner.
> -james

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