[Vwdiesel] Wasserboxer Westy

Tue Aug 13 14:54:47 PDT 2013

Torque absorber - I like that. :)

Thanks Andrew, that's a wealth of knowledge.

What do you say are pros/cons of auto vs. manual?  I tend to favor manuals,
but I imagine that introduces a whole layer of PITA when you're dealing
with linkages running the length of the vehicle.

Is there any telltale to know if the trans has been updated, or do you just
have to ask? :)  At what point did the stock trans's get the updated slider?

Any opinion on the Subaru conversion?

What about non-drivetrain concerns (other than rust)?  Problems with the
poptop, plumbing, electrical?

On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Andrew .Libby <libbybapa at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a big topic and worthy of a longer response than I have time to write
> at this time.  Vanagons have held their value well and in the last decade
> have appreciated remarkably.  It is very rare to see a good running clean
> straight syncro (no 'H') Westy sell for less than $25,000.  With upgrades
> in powerplant, suspension, brakes, etc..., it is not unheard of to see them
> sell from owners fo over $60,000.  GoWesty is known to have sold a few
> completely restored and thoroughly upgraded ones for over $100,000! 8-O
>
> As far as issues with used vehicles, there are a few that I would point
> out.  Rust is the worst.  Luckily I'm in AZ where it is mostly a non-issue.
>  I'm not really a fan of any of the stock vanagon engines that were
> available in North America.  The 1.6 non-turbo diesel is pathetically
> underpowered in a 4,000 lb vanagon.  The air cooled 2.0 flat four gas
> engine that was offered for the first 3 years is a little better WRT power,
> but got 20ish mpg at best, is fairly high maintenance/unreliable with the
> valve seat dropping issue and is very expensive now to source or rebuild.
>  Underpowered, expensive and unreliable doesn't leave much to like.  As has
> been mentioned, the water-cooled gas engines tended to have leaky head
> gasket issues.  This was largely due to the fact that VW spec'd the coolant
> as lifetime coolant.  To their credit, sorta, most of the issues occurred
> after the warranty period...  The 1.9 waterboxer (WBX) is a little better
> than the air-cooled for power.  Still grossly underpowered by today's
> standards, but does reasonably well and is a stout little engine provided
> the recommended coolant change interval of 'never' is ignored. :-)  Every
> two or three years is a reasonable interval.  The 2.1 WBX is almost
> reasonably powered when coupled to a manual trans.  The 2.1 got TTY rod
> bolts which are known to fail around 150,000-200,000 miles.  When a rod
> bolt fails the engine is destroyed usually beyond even being a core.  The
> manual transaxles had a faulty part, the 3-4 slider hub (4-5 slider ont he
> 5-speeds) which was originally machined with square edged grooves and so
> stress fractures occur.  The faulty part was actually used back in the bay
> buses also but wasn't really an issue due to the reduced power output of
> the older stock engines.  The vanagon manuals usually fail around
> 150,000-200,000 miles due to the slider.  Often the issue is seen as being
> stuck in or stuck out of 3rd or 4th (4th and 5th w/ the 5-speed).  Often
> times the sticking will happen just briefly and one is able to keep driving
> until the broken bits turn what was a rebuildable core into shrapnel.  I
> have one broken slider hub on my wall of shame.  Luckily I knew enough to
> stop driving the van and pulled it for rebuilding prior to further damage.
>  Once rebuilt with the updated slider (later ones have rounded grooves) the
> manuals are known to last incredibly long times depending on how much
> torque is pushed through them.  The automatics are the 010 3-speed used in
> lots of VW/Audi vehicles of the era and are known to be very robust units
> albeit limited in their regearing options.
>
> As far as diesel conversions, I have done several of them using the 1.6TD,
> 1.9TD (AAZ), 1.9TDI AHU/1Z and the 1.9TDI ALH.  The TDI conversions I have
> done to date have all used mechanical injection pumps built by me.  At some
> point I may do a full electronic install just for the fun of it, but the
> added unreliability of the added layer of complexity tends to curtail the
> fun.  I'd rather have the higher quality end product of a properly built
> mechanical TDI (mTDI) than the full-electronic engine management and so
> I've been waiting for someone stubborn enough to pay me to do an electronic
> conversion.  :-)  I currently own three vanagons.  One is an '84 pop-top
> with an AAZ coupled to a 4-speed manual trans.  The AAZ is intercooled and
> running a k14.  Another is an '83 high top camper with an AHU mTDI,
> intercooled and running a VNT15 with mechanical vane control coupled to a
> 5-speed manual.  The third is a '91 tintop ALH installed at 15° and coupled
> to an automatic with the taller european 3.7 R+P.  I have big plans for the
> ALH but it is currently non-intercooled and running a VNT15 with stationary
> vanes.  Despite baing very detuned from what it will be when I'm done with
> it, it will thoroughly spank a 2.1 WBX and despite routine flogging and the
> torque absorber in the automatic trans, it manages to pull off better than
> 25 MPG with all in-city driving.
>
> I don't know if I answered the question...  Anyway, I hope that helps in
> some way.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:25 AM, ralph meyermann <
> ralphmeyermann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are a few out there with inline turbo diesels, and Subaru has a
>> turbo
>> diesel engine for around 6k if ya want to keep it diesel? Or find a 1.6 na
>> westy and upgrade like I have recently done?
>>
>>
>> Velma 82 na diesel westy
>> On Aug 13, 2013 10:54 AM, "James Hansen" <jhsg at sasktel.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hey Tad.
>> > Coolant system was an issue. The head has very narrow sealing ridges
>> where
>> > it meets the head gasket, corrosion was a real issue if coolant was
>> > never/seldom changed... and they are like a 305 head, too narrow to
>> skim.
>> > When you are shopping, if the owner gives you a dumb look when you ask
>> when
>> > the coolant was changed last, consider passing, or price out what heads
>> and
>> > gaskets cost these days.  If it looks like it has had ANY stop leak
>> product
>> > used, pass, as it's probably sick already. Coolant pipes to the front
>> were
>> > prone to corrosion as well.
>> > They were an excellent powertrain otherwise... By now, there are quite a
>> > few
>> > around that have a sick motor, bad head gaskets, etc, and are good
>> > candidates for a diesel or other conversion. Saw a marvelous synchro on
>> > Vancouver Island a few years back with a 911 6 cylinder shoehorned into
>> the
>> > back, lift kit, roo bars all round, big warn winch hanging out the
>> front,
>> > it
>> > was awesome.
>> > If Andrew Libby is off playing a gig on a mountaintop or something and
>> > doesn't catch this, be sure you get to pick his brain before you go
>> > looking,
>> > especially a synchro, he's btdt.
>> > On a personal note, I looked at wasserboxers for years.  I have never
>> seen
>> > stuff that held value for so long.  I still have my 73 westy that I
>> > restored
>> > while in university, and wanted to move up to the slightly more spacious
>> > interior with a real fridge. The wasserboxers were the next logical
>> step,
>> > it
>> > was around 1996... and I saw so many bad ones, I sort of gave up and
>> went
>> > the truck camper route since we could use my parents old one that I
>> camped
>> > in with them as a kid, they had gone to a 5th wheel trailer.  We've
>> moved
>> > up
>> > from that to a larger truck camper 5 years ago which was a huge mistake,
>> > because it has a shower, and if we lost the shower to go back to a westy
>> > after the kids no longer camp with us, that would be most most most
>> > unpopular, except maybe for a weekend getaway.
>> > -james
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com]
>> On
>> > Behalf Of Tad
>> > Sent: August-12-13 5:40 PM
>> > To: VW diesel mail list
>> > Subject: [Vwdiesel] Wasserboxer Westy
>> >
>> > Hey all - not strictly diesel content, but ya'll seem to know
>> everything so
>> > I figured I'd ask.
>> >
>> > I'm thinking about looking for a VW camper van, probably a wasserboxer.
>> >  Thinking maybe end of summer would be a good time to pick one up from
>> > someone who's decided to move on to bigger and better things.
>> >
>> > So, I'm looking for suggestions/ideas as to what to look for and where
>> to
>> > look for it, weak spots, known issues, etc.
>> >
>> > Any thoughts or comments greatly appreciated!
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Tad
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