[Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures

Tue Aug 12 14:04:33 PDT 2014

-----Original Message-----
I have a 1984 Westy with a 1.9TD conversion and I have the same problem with and could never solve.  As soon as I drive over 60mph or encounter hills that need full throttle for any length of time, I get raising water and oil temperatures.  Normally mine runs 210-220 degrees of water temp (at the head outlet to interior heater core), and 200-210 degree of oil temp (drain plug sensor), but when pushed it rises to what Hayden is experiencing.  The dash gauge runs just at or above the led during normal operation, and then goes up from there when the engine is pushed.  The gas engine always ran just below the led on the water temp gauge.
I have read that VW in Europe fitted a thicker radiator for their TD diesels.  Not sure where to get one or if it would present a clearance problem with an a/c condenser in front of it.  There obviously was a cooling problem for VW to come out with the thicker rad (1" thicker I believe).
I am missing on the air restriction shields to the right of the rad and at the bottom which may be allowing some air to by pass the radiator.
Wade 

From: Vwdiesel [mailto:vwdiesel-bounces at vwfans.com] On Behalf Of vwdiesel-request at vwfans.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:33 AM
To: vwdiesel at vwfans.com
Subject: Vwdiesel Digest, Vol 130, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

   1. coolant temperatures (dieseltdi at verizon.net)
   2. Re: coolant temperatures (Ralph Meyermann)
   3. Re: coolant temperatures (dieseltdi at verizon.net)
   4. Re: coolant temperatures (dieseltdi at verizon.net)
   5. Re: coolant temperatures (Ralph Meyermann)
   6. Re: coolant temperatures (Bryan Belman)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:09:27 -0500
From: dieseltdi at verizon.net
To: vw fans <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID: <12EBB98C-2C46-44BA-B952-3B3E8FD981FC at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

OK, I need someone to calm my fears or confirm them.  I just took another long trip in the 82 Jetta with the RA turbocharged engine (82 hp, water and oil cooled turbo, intercooler).  The air temperature was above 100F (sometimes as high as 105F).  We were running the AC and cruising at about 70 mph when I noticed that the coolant temp and oil temp had crept up quite a bit.  Now I have the "gauge" on the dash which was really pushing close to the 3rd tick mark, and a water temp gauge measuring water temp at he outlet on the front of the head as it goes to the radiator and it at times seated firmly at 250F.   Oil temperature is taken on the top of the oil filter/cooler housing and would touch 260F when the coolant temp was high.  We found that turning off the AC would drop the temp considerably as would slowing down.  Well when I got to Odessa (330 miles or so of slow driving and stopping to let everything cool, we did an overnight flush of the radiator and then added the correct amount of 50/50 coolant plus some Ultra lube super coolant.  On the way home, we had the same issues so my son and I made the decision that it must be the 32 year old radiator was partially clogged.  Sooooo, this morning, I drained and filtered the coolant, removed the old radiator and replaced it with what the supplier called an "HD replacement".  Seems awfully thing and flimsy to me but my son the mechanic tells me that the aluminum radiators expel heat much better.  I do want to say that the car never overheated to the point of the warning light flashing or any other problems.  I didn't let it get that hot.  Anyway with the new radiator, I am seeing a bit of a cool down front he previous one but the temperatures just seem high to me.  The cluster gauge now sits just to the right of the warning light and the water temp gauge says about 230-240F but on a hard run will touch 250F.  Everything immediately cools down at slower speeds.  Oil temp stays about 240-250F but will touch 260F on a hard run.  Fan is working properly and I even have a pusher fan mounted to the right of the main fan to help with AC cooling of the condenser.  Water pump was replaced with a good version with the cast metal impeller when I put the engine in the car.  All belts are tight.  So.....are these temps too high or OK?  I do have the stuff to remove the factory oil cooler/warmer and replace it with a small separate cooler of its own but haven't don that yet.  Hayden

"There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle." 
"I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run."
"I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville

Proud owner of:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
1968 Beetle, Still in progress
1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy, Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:16:40 -0500
From: Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann at gmail.com>
To: Hayden Chasteen <dieseltdi at verizon.net>
Cc: VW Diesel Group <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID:
	<CAAj276xVBm0fZPYSKYB0jQff-jgMQyVE4LVsrfcjyNHnDX6M8g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Possibly back the smoke/fuel screw a touch? I had to, was getting hot on
heavy pedal runs.

Velma 82 1.9L AAZ TD Westy
On Aug 11, 2014 5:10 PM, <dieseltdi at verizon.net> wrote:

> OK, I need someone to calm my fears or confirm them.  I just took another
> long trip in the 82 Jetta with the RA turbocharged engine (82 hp, water and
> oil cooled turbo, intercooler).  The air temperature was above 100F
> (sometimes as high as 105F).  We were running the AC and cruising at about
> 70 mph when I noticed that the coolant temp and oil temp had crept up quite
> a bit.  Now I have the "gauge" on the dash which was really pushing close
> to the 3rd tick mark, and a water temp gauge measuring water temp at he
> outlet on the front of the head as it goes to the radiator and it at times
> seated firmly at 250F.   Oil temperature is taken on the top of the oil
> filter/cooler housing and would touch 260F when the coolant temp was high.
>  We found that turning off the AC would drop the temp considerably as would
> slowing down.  Well when I got to Odessa (330 miles or so of slow driving
> and stopping to let everything cool, we did an overnight flush of the
> radiator and then added the correct amount of 50/50 coolant plus some Ultra
> lube super coolant.  On the way home, we had the same issues so my son and
> I made the decision that it must be the 32 year old radiator was partially
> clogged.  Sooooo, this morning, I drained and filtered the coolant, removed
> the old radiator and replaced it with what the supplier called an "HD
> replacement".  Seems awfully thing and flimsy to me but my son the mechanic
> tells me that the aluminum radiators expel heat much better.  I do want to
> say that the car never overheated to the point of the warning light
> flashing or any other problems.  I didn't let it get that hot.  Anyway with
> the new radiator, I am seeing a bit of a cool down front he previous one
> but the temperatures just seem high to me.  The cluster gauge now sits just
> to the right of the warning light and the water temp gauge says about
> 230-240F but on a hard run will touch 250F.  Everything immediately cools
> down at slower speeds.  Oil temp stays about 240-250F but will touch 260F
> on a hard run.  Fan is working properly and I even have a pusher fan
> mounted to the right of the main fan to help with AC cooling of the
> condenser.  Water pump was replaced with a good version with the cast metal
> impeller when I put the engine in the car.  All belts are tight.  So.....are
> these temps too high or OK?  I do have the stuff to remove the factory oil
> cooler/warmer and replace it with a small separate cooler of its own but
> haven't don that yet.  Hayden
>
> "There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is
> no party of principle."
> "I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior
> men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not
> run."
> "I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every
> new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every
> social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may
> absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville
>
> Proud owner of:
> 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
> 1968 Beetle, Still in progress
> 1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
> And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans
> (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy,
> Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New
> Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but
> not forgotten.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:24:36 -0500
From: dieseltdi at verizon.net
To: vw fans <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID: <F2235219-1BB5-44E0-80A0-3F91AC2A4695 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Followup, I decided to go old school to check out my engine temps so I dug out my round faced dial thermometer that I use in my turkey fryer.  Result?  Radiator fan turns on right at 199F, just where it should.  After some further measurements, I determined  that BOTH my oil temperature gauge and my water temperature gauge and potentially my pyrometer are not reading the proper measurements!  Now to find out why!  Senders are all the correct ones so I must assume there is a voltage problem to the gauges. need to find a better hot side connection.  Hayden

On Aug 11, 2014, at 4:09 PM, dieseltdi at verizon.net wrote:

> OK, I need someone to calm my fears or confirm them.  I just took another long trip in the 82 Jetta with the RA turbocharged engine (82 hp, water and oil cooled turbo, intercooler).  The air temperature was above 100F (sometimes as high as 105F).  We were running the AC and cruising at about 70 mph when I noticed that the coolant temp and oil temp had crept up quite a bit.  Now I have the "gauge" on the dash which was really pushing close to the 3rd tick mark, and a water temp gauge measuring water temp at he outlet on the front of the head as it goes to the radiator and it at times seated firmly at 250F.   Oil temperature is taken on the top of the oil filter/cooler housing and would touch 260F when the coolant temp was high.  We found that turning off the AC would drop the temp considerably as would slowing down.  Well when I got to Odessa (330 miles or so of slow driving and stopping to let everything cool, we did an overnight flush of the radiator and then added the correct amount of 50/50 coolant plus some Ultra lube super coolant.  On the way home, we had the same issues so my son and I made the decision that it must be the 32 year old radiator was partially clogged.  Sooooo, this morning, I drained and filtered the coolant, removed the old radiator and replaced it with what the supplier called an "HD replacement".  Seems awfully thing and flimsy to me but my son the mechanic tells me that the aluminum radiators expel heat much better.  I do want to say that the car never overheated to the point of the warning light flashing or any other problems.  I didn't let it get that hot.  Anyway with the new radiator, I am seeing a bit of a cool down front he previous one but the temperatures just seem high to me.  The cluster gauge now sits just to the right of the warning light and the water temp gauge says about 230-240F but on a hard run will touch 250F.  Everything immediately cools down at slower speeds.  Oil temp stays about 240-250F but will touch 260F on a hard run.  Fan is working properly and I even have a pusher fan mounted to the right of the main fan to help with AC cooling of the condenser.  Water pump was replaced with a good version with the cast metal impeller when I put the engine in the car.  All belts are tight.  So.....are these temps too high or OK?  I do have the stuff to remove the factory oil cooler/warmer and replace it with a small separate cooler of its own but haven't don that yet.  Hayden
> 
> "There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle." 
> "I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run."
> "I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville
> 
> Proud owner of:
> 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
> 1968 Beetle, Still in progress
> 1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
> And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy, Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel

"There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle." 
"I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run."
"I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville

Proud owner of:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
1968 Beetle, Still in progress
1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy, Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:50:51 -0500
From: dieseltdi at verizon.net
To: vw fans <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID: <0487CFAF-AF63-47E9-AC59-72FEEC7419C4 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Follow up to the follow up.  Oil Temperature gauge and water temperature gauges are reading too high while oil pressure gauge and pyrometer are reading too low.  I think I have a voltage or ground problem to sort out.  Hayden
On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, dieseltdi at verizon.net wrote:

> Followup, I decided to go old school to check out my engine temps so I dug out my round faced dial thermometer that I use in my turkey fryer.  Result?  Radiator fan turns on right at 199F, just where it should.  After some further measurements, I determined  that BOTH my oil temperature gauge and my water temperature gauge and potentially my pyrometer are not reading the proper measurements!  Now to find out why!  Senders are all the correct ones so I must assume there is a voltage problem to the gauges. need to find a better hot side connection.  Hayden
> 
"There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle." 
"I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run."
"I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville

Proud owner of:
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
1968 Beetle, Still in progress
1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy, Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but not forgotten.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 06:24:23 -0500
From: Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann at gmail.com>
To: Hayden Chasteen <dieseltdi at verizon.net>
Cc: VW Diesel Group <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID:
	<CAAj276xZr3-MWhXpViJriLUZwhFcAxU2bBTcN4fVasX5x2=M6Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

My vanagon westy is prone to ground issues as well.

Velma 82 1.9L AAZ TD Westy
On Aug 11, 2014 10:51 PM, <dieseltdi at verizon.net> wrote:

> Follow up to the follow up.  Oil Temperature gauge and water temperature
> gauges are reading too high while oil pressure gauge and pyrometer are
> reading too low.  I think I have a voltage or ground problem to sort out.
>  Hayden
> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, dieseltdi at verizon.net wrote:
>
> > Followup, I decided to go old school to check out my engine temps so I
> dug out my round faced dial thermometer that I use in my turkey fryer.
>  Result?  Radiator fan turns on right at 199F, just where it should.  After
> some further measurements, I determined  that BOTH my oil temperature gauge
> and my water temperature gauge and potentially my pyrometer are not reading
> the proper measurements!  Now to find out why!  Senders are all the correct
> ones so I must assume there is a voltage problem to the gauges. need to
> find a better hot side connection.  Hayden
> >
> "There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is
> no party of principle."
> "I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior
> men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not
> run."
> "I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every
> new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every
> social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may
> absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville
>
> Proud owner of:
> 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
> 1968 Beetle, Still in progress
> 1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
> And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans
> (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy,
> Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New
> Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but
> not forgotten.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel
>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:31:43 -0700
From: Bryan Belman <dieselwesty at yahoo.com>
To: Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann at gmail.com>, Hayden Chasteen
	<dieseltdi at verizon.net>
Cc: VW Diesel Group <vwdiesel at vwfans.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwdiesel] coolant temperatures
Message-ID:
	<1407853903.26699.YahooMailNeo at web142504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Those temps do seem high.  I can only compare to my 92 Jetta with 1.6TD.
I will say, the EGT's on that car never got over 900F.  What are your EGT's running at?
I could have turned the fuel screw in-ward 1/8 turn to get more fuel, which should have raised my EGT's a bit, but I never did it, the car just ran to good.
Coolant temps of 245-250 are high, oil temp of 250-260 are high.
Coolant should be around 200-210F, Oil, 250F TOPS on a hard run and 230F on normal running. 

What are you oil pressure readings when running down the highway with 250F oil temps?
Maybe try running thicker oil, 20W-50, AMSOIL makes some.

Oil feed and coolant feeds to turbo are cream of the crop, my 90 Audi had a big turbo with this.
That should help dispurse the heat.

So, my suggestions
1. double check your timing, if to far or way far advanced, it would make engine run hot
2. EGT's, if they are up at 1,300F on a hard run, and run 900F normally, then turn back your fuel delievery screw on the injection pump.  1/8 turn, little by little until you see the EGT's back off.
3. Are you possible getting any head pressure blow by to coolant res.  check this as well.

Bryan Belman, Pt. Pleasant, NJ
04 Jetta Wagon TDI PD BEW, 100hp, 5sp -- running :<)
04 Golf TDI PD BEW, 100hp, 5sp Tiptronic Auto -- running :<)
82 Diesel Westy 1.9NA 1Y -- running :<)
70 Type 1 Beetle -- Under Restoration forever:-) 

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:34 AM, Ralph Meyermann <ralphmeyermann at gmail.com> wrote:

My vanagon westy is prone to ground issues as well.

Velma 82 1.9L AAZ TD Westy
On Aug 11, 2014 10:51 PM, <dieseltdi at verizon.net> wrote:

> Follow up to the follow up.  Oil Temperature gauge and water temperature
> gauges are reading too high while oil pressure gauge and pyrometer are
> reading too low.  I think I have a voltage or ground problem to sort out.
>  Hayden
> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:24 PM, dieseltdi at verizon.net wrote:
>
> > Followup, I decided to go old school to check out my engine temps so I
> dug out my round faced dial thermometer that I use in my turkey fryer.
>  Result?  Radiator fan turns on right at 199F, just where it should.  After
> some further measurements, I determined  that BOTH my oil temperature gauge
> and my water temperature gauge and potentially my pyrometer are not reading
> the proper measurements!  Now to find out why!  Senders are all the correct
> ones so I must assume there is a voltage problem to the gauges. need to
> find a better hot side connection.  Hayden
> >
> "There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is
> no party of principle."
> "I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior
> men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not
> run."
> "I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every
> new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every
> social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may
> absolutely refuse to move at all."  Alexis de Tocqueville
>
> Proud owner of:
> 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel
> 1968 Beetle, Still in progress
> 1982 VW Jetta Coupe GTD "FrankenJetta"
> And many, many, many VWs; from a 1947 Beetle (13 Beetles total), to Vans
> (5 - 3 splitties  2 bay window (both were campers), 1 Vanagon Westy,
> Rabbits (3), Karmen Ghia (1), Jettas (11), Passats (2), Dasher (1), New
> Beetle (1), Rabbit Convertible (1) and Rabbit Pickups (3) most now gone but
> not forgotten.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwdiesel mailing list
> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel

>
_______________________________________________
Vwdiesel mailing list
Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/vwdiesel

------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of Vwdiesel Digest, Vol 130, Issue 6
****************************************