[Vwdiesel] Valvetrain advice

[pmdolan1 at sasktel.net]

If VW is saying to push on the end of the guide, that would be 
extremely bad thing to do.  Not QUITE as bad as whacking your tool 
(uh....your drift, not THAT tool!!) with a hammer, but still not the 
best way at all to do it.  Galls the bore into which the guide is 
pressed.  You will get some of that damage re-installing, but why 
accept it coming out?   The way it is done is with a "coring" bit. 
 Just use an old drill bit about 1mm smaller than the OD of the guide, 
and grind a pilot onto the end 8.0mm dia.   make a pair of cutting 
seats 10 or so mm up the bit.  Then you drill (actually spot face) 
back from the port with the cutter in a press, set to stop about 15mm 
before the end of the guide.   When you put your new tool into your 
press (same diameter as drill bit....something tells me it was 7/16" - 
but not sure from here) it will "shrink" the shell with load and pull 
the lot out with NO DAMAGE to the guide bore. 
 
Try it, you'll like it and do it this way forever. 

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 16:39:38 -0700, Robert Downes  wrote:

       right. i'm not going to be pounding on anything, but as far as i 
know the tool is still called a drift when it's used in a press, which 
is the method recommended by VW. i dont expect too much resistance once 
the head is properly heated. 
and i did slip and use the word grind, but yes, i have a proper neway 
carbide cutter for the seats. if i were to rework the valves, however, 
i'd do it on the lathe with a precision grinder. still hoping to learn 
whether this is an acceptable course to pursue... 
 
i have a source for the valves but i'm hoping to save that $150.. 
 
Ralph: yeah! i appreciate the recommendation. i'm pretty confident that 
my head's cracks are not bad enough to be worrisome, and like i said 
i'm hoping to rework my seats and a new set would not be too 
expensive.. so, forging ahead... 
 
thanks for the replies!

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:30 PM,
  wrote:

       The words used scare the living crap out of me. 
 
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE pound the guides out with a drift.  You 
will destroy the head.  CORE THEM properly so that your removal tool 
is SHRINKING the thin remaining shell.   Pounding on the end of the 
guide will make it expand and screw up the bore in the aluminum head. 
 
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTNCES give your head to someone with a set of 
grinding stones.  chances are 99% that they wil absolutely screw up 
the valve seat depth.  Unless the shop is extremely familiar with VW 
heads, just don't go there.   Find someone with the correct set of 
carbide cutters and pilots, and they can put the right angles on the 
seat and the other two cuts to set seat width while not removing too 
much material from the seat. 
 
You should be able to get a decent deal on new valves from just about 
anyone except the dealer.  Just stay away from Chinese discount parts. 
  I use WorldPac since I can get choice of several suppliers including 
OEM on their site. 

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 16:10:26 -0700, Robert Downes  wrote:
 

       well, it's going to cost a whole lot less than $900. 
the head itself will run me $200-250 in parts(I'm sure VW's valves are
excellent quality but they are not the only high quality parts available)
and having the work done by a reputable machine shop in seattle would be
around 400 after shipping. 

I am lucky enough to have found myself in a lifestyle that allows me the
flexibility to use my own time for such projects. From one perspective,
this is inefficient--i do value my time and in a raw dollars equation, it
would pay to have a professional do the labor--But the time I invest in the
project will not be in the form of labor. Instead i'll be doing work for
which my return is problem solving excercise, deeper knowledge of a subject
which interests me, my increased value to my community as a result of that
knowledge, the community capital gained by seeking help (this type of
capital pays off to both individuals involved in the exchange!), etc. 

not to mention that as long as i get to do it on my own schedule, i find
turning a wrench fairly therapeutic. 

So, I feel like i'm getting a pretty good deal!
-Bob
On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Ralph Meyermann
wrote:

> About how much is this head job going to cost? I know VW is wanting nearly
> $60.00 a valve. I purchased a new complete kolbenschmidt AAZ head from
> www.boraparts.com for $900.00. 
> On Oct 7, 2015 3:39 PM, "Robert Downes"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks! though i rarely take part in these discussions, i've been a
>> subscriber to this list for a long time and have a great respect for the
>> spirit of community brought by some of you here. i find this community to
>> be one of the biggest perks of owning these cars and i'm keenly aware of
>> how much i've learned reading this list in particular. 
>>
>> Thanks A Lot!!
>>
>> And now, the point: I have a 1.9D (1y) engine in my '81 caddy. great
>> engine, i've never regretted putting it in. i got it for a good price with
>> unknown miles and have gotten my money's worth out of it but the
>> noisy/smoky valvetrain finally got bad enough and the timing in my life
>> got
>> good enough that i recently converted my head into an organized pile of
>> bits. i have pretty good help here from a machinist with with space and
>> tools to loan but i'm having trouble finding complete information online
>> to
>> help me evaluate my parts and determine exactly how far i need to go. 
>>
>> i definitely need new guides, and those are readily available. this head
>> has the older, 8mm valves and i also have a source for a set of those. 
>>
>> the seats and valve surfaces are clean and shiny, but are visibly worn out
>> of shape (from the worn guides?)
>>
>> my questions are,
>> --i have access to seat grinding tools and help from a machinist to grind
>> the valves flat. how can i determine whether the wear is too much? that
>> is,
>> what is the range of self-adjustment of the hydraulic lifters and is there
>> an established baseline to measure from?
>>
>> --i've seen some nonspecific recommendations against reworking these
>> valves. my valve stems are not worn measurably (the dia. is consistent to
>> .0005" over their length) and i'd love to avoid buying a new set. how
>> foolish would it be to grind them? if the answer is not very, what angle
>> differential with the seat is normal?
>>
>> --i have a proper drift for removal/installation of the guides, and an
>> idea
>> of how to go about that job, but I WELCOME any tips that any of you might
>> have to ease this part of the work. also, the guide reamer i have is the
>> adjustable variety. is there a target value to ream these to? i've found
>> no
>> info except to use the vw reaming tool. my best guess is to go until there
>> is a small amount of 'rock' via the guide wear test in the bentley manual,
>> but much less than the 1.3mm max. ???
>>
>> I hope that's reasonably clear. Thank you in advance for the help, and in
>> return i promise to get a little more active and help field some questions
>> that are within my sphere!
>>
>> with Gratitude
>> -Bob
>> Port Townsend, Wa
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Vwdiesel at vwfans.com
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>>
>
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