Re: Flame throwers... long one guys

[PDQSHIP@aol.com]

In a message dated 95-09-07 12:12:18 EDT, you write:

>
>IMHO, amber fog lights are dumb.  A good fog light, properly aimed and 
>mounted low enough on the vehicle, does not need to be yellow to work.  
>White light is more efficient, as you are not wasting electricity just to 
>have half t.............

Well those of you that run in snow or dust might disagree with the yellow
light theory, what yellow light does is give depth in low visability
conditions,tho it does give about 15% less light vs a clear........   There
are many ProRally guys that might disagree with the dumb statement, in fact
this one believes the exact opposite......  A good Hella Z beam or eurobeam
headlights is nothing more than a clear fog light, what you gain with clear
lens fogs is the sharp top cutoff, but so do most "euro" style lights......
 So putting the fogs on in clear, if you have the euros already is
redumbdant.......   You are better off having the ambers to "mellow the
effect" of those 100w bulbs you put in the Ralleye 2000's, and/or to give
depth to the "pure" white and highly reflective light from a hologen
bulb........


>1. Mounting as low as possible on the vehicle.  You may get lucky and 
>have the beam pass under a fog that is hovering just above the ground.  I 
>have seen this happen, but don't count on it.  The real reason for low 
>mounting is to have as much angle between your eyes and the light as seen 
f>rom the fog droplets, as the droplets tend to reflect straight back, 
>with the scatter somewhat less.  All around, low mounting is a win.
Hmmm, not sure I agree with the summation, here

>2.  A good light has a sharp cutoff on top, and will not have scattered 
>light in the fog at the level you are looking through.  Making the lens 
>yellow is a cheap way to try to make up for lousy focusing.  You will 
>notice that the low-buck fog lights tend to be amber.
Not sure Hella or Cibie/Marshall would agree with you here, they make yellow/
and clear fog lenses for just about all housing apps.....  And believe me,
they aren't cheap.......

>Note that you defeat the whole purpose of fog lights if you have your 
>headlights on.  Headlights are mounted too high to work right in fog, 
>rain and snow.
A litttle off on that one, not sure that the distance from the top of the
bumper to the bottom of the bumper on lense centers is significant to the
human eye

  Thanks to our brain-dead politicians that specified a 
>MINIMUM height for headlights.  This also screwed up the design of my 
>favorite car, the Lotus Europa, but don't get me started on that.  Many 
>cars have the fog lights interlocked to require the headlights be on.  
>Foolishness, IMHO.
Interlocked to the low beams is the law in most states fogs are to be mounted
a minimum of a foot from the ground.....
Now you must differentiate between a fog and a driving/fog here.......  There
are only a handful of cars that come with true FOG lights from the
factory....  There are millions of cars that come with "sport lites" as I
call them, or commonly are H3 driving/fogs......   these are the Dumb lites
you might/should be referring to...  A light is either a driving a pencil or
a fog, and can effectively be only one of the three........  And the blame
should go to the car manufacturers more than the politicians, if the
manufacturers put proper fogs and aiming procedures were followed on cars the
politicians would need to get involved as much as they have........

>Detroit made a bad design decision with vertically-stacked quad 
headlights.  They elected to put the low beam light on the top.  On my 
Dad's Suburban in a snowstorm, the light comes right back in your face.  
I have swapped the lights, putting the low beam on the bottom, and now 
see much better in snow or fog (don't have fog lights on it).  It is 
interesting how many of my buddies have noticed something odd about the 
>truck, but they can't figure what it is...   
Detroit and the US have the worst headlight systems I've ever experienced,
the US spec q's are no different........


Better lights are more carefully made and have more defined patterns.  I 
liked Cibie and Hella in the old days,<<<<  Hella are the only ones left here
in the states, but Cibie/Marshall is still very much alive cross the pone
>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don't have any idea 
who makes the best ones now.  You want ease of mounting under the bumper, 
ease of aiming, a good flat-top beam, clear lens, lots of power<<<<<  Fogs
should be no more than 55w BTW
>>>>>>>>>>
.  Mount 'em low, aim them carefully, and you will see well and not blind
oncoming 
cars on a flat road (breaking over hills is a problem with oncoming cars 
no matter how high lights are mounted.).
 <<<<<  Mount them solidly as you can, as in very, no shake at all, strut
braces and no shake will make up for a couple inches of vertical placement


Done a few, clearly
and a few amber waves......
Scott
PDQSHIP@aol.com

Current Street
87 5ktqRS2  Hella Rallye 2000's Driving/above bumper/clear/100w H2

EX SCCA Showroom Stock GLH turbo
2 Hella Euro H4 HI/LO 55/100 
2  7" Cibie 190 Oscar + Driving 100w
2  3X5 Cibie 175 AMBER FOG (below bumper) 55w

EX ProRally 81 Scirocco
2  5 1/4 H4 HI/LOW Z-Beam Cibies  55/100w
2  5 1/4 H2 HI DRIVING Cibies  100w
2  7" Cibie 190 Oscar + Driving 100w
1  7" Cibie 190 Oscar + Pencil   55w
2 4X6 Cibie 195 Amber Fog (below bumper) 55w