In a message dated 95-10-24 10:38:57 EDT, you write: >powered car or an eclipse turbo is much much quicker than a vtec. >yes, i have driven them all. it's all about torque. > > Bingo..... Eliot you hit it, HP looks pretty, but torque is what moves a car in the manner in which we all would love to become accustomed....... Good post Scott