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re: Quattro Digest V2 #522
I'm sorry, but I will be out of the office until Friday, October 27. If you
have a DSP applications question, please forward your comments to
dsp_applications@analog.com. Thank You -Noam Levine
-------------
Original Text
>From quattro-digest-owner@coimbra.ans.net, on 10/25/95 6:47 PM:
To: <quattro-digest@coimbra.ans.net>
Quattro Digest Wednesday, 25 October 1995 Volume 02 : Number 522
In this issue:
Re: TQC Suggestions
AUDI ism's
books
Re: Quattro debate
Re:
HP/torque curves?
Dealers (was Re: ??)
Re: 86 Coupe horror story
Re: Quattro Digest V2 #521
Dealer service
Re: Quattro debate
Re:
signats
Re: HP/torque curves?
Re: S6 Pricing
re: torsen diff info
4000SQ: Control arm bushings
more books
'87 5000CS Turb. AC compressor problem
Re: AUDI & Mercedes
Re: Audi and Volvo comercial commentary
Dealers (was Re: ??)
Addition to Audi family:5kcstq
RE: '86 Coupe GT horror story
Outer CV Joint/Loctite
Re: AUDI & Mercedes
Re: Dealers (was Re: ??)
Re: HP/torque curves?
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the quattro
or quattro-digest mailing lists.
To submit a message to the quattro list, mail to quattro@coimbra.ans.net.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Frank Deutschmann <fhd@interport.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: TQC Suggestions
Bob D'Amato sez:
> So I turn to you, the lowlife of audiism. (I mean that in a good way). If
> I cant turn to you guys, then I dont know where to go.
> QUESTION: How can I somehow afford the new house AND keep the Q. Would
> love to get a 'part' time job to make up some of the difference. Selling
> my body is out...I'd starve...
Why not simply live in the Quattro -- that would probably even help please the
Audi gods!
Of course, you could also sell a kidney...
- -frank
- --
fhd@interport.net | The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
1 212 559 5534 | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world
1 917 992 2248 | to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
1 718 746 7061 | unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
From: savidesn@audvid.win.net (Darin Nederhoff)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:07:31
Subject: AUDI ism's
Ok... on a lighter note, here are few few alternate meanings for
AUDI. ;)
AUDI
Another Unique Deutcheland <sp?> Invention
All Use Dollars Inevitably
An Underestimated Dragstrip Instigator (may not apply for non-turbo cars ;)
Another Use of Dollar Income
Accelerate Unless Driving Intoxicated
Accelerate Under Direct Intention (in other words, intended accerlation)
Accelerates Under Demonic Intervention
Actual Use Devours Income
Accelerative Urges Defy Inertia
This seems to be about it, but if you can think of more, send them
to me and maybe they will get posted some time down the road. :)
Ciao
Darin
'A couple Q's and an XR4ti'
------------------------------
From: raf40@oes.amdahl.com (Richard Funnell)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:40:55 -0800
Subject: books
Q'rs, especially Scott and Eric,
Thanks to your excellent recommendations I went out and bought Carrol
Smith's Tune to Win. It is a great book, but it turns out that the exhaust
stuff is in his Prepare to Win so that's next on my list. In the course of
reading through the section on engine tuning, Carrol he strongly recommends
at least 2 other books, so I can see that I will have 4 new books shortly.
At least this is cleaner work than buying and installing new parts. I
wonder if it counts as part of the monthly (weekly) sacrifice.
Deeper and deeper into the pockets,
Richard Funnell,
San Jose, California
'83 urQ
'87 560 SL
------------------------------
From: Frank Deutschmann <fhd@interport.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:57:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Quattro debate
bellis@ensr.com sez:
> I am not looking to run circles around Porsche c-4's or anything, but I
> would like to have enough power to get out of my own way, and if possible,
> take out a mustang or camaro on the way. ( hence I am considering the 200
> Quattro, and buying a chip )
>
> Basically the benefits of the coupe are
> 1 20v engine - torque sucks, but better HP, higher redline, no turbo lag
> 2 smaller - less weight, less mass to accelerate, better cornering
> 3 a coupe - chicks dig coupes
As the owner of a '91 coupe, I guess I should comment:
1) 20v engine is OK, but only "works" in a powerband of 3100-6200 RPM.
2) Maybe a smaller body, but the 20v 90 Q is lighter, though the Coupe is
geared better for acceleration. Optimum may well be a 20v 90 Q with Coupe
gearing -- not infeasible.
3) 2 doors has its advantages!
> Benefits of the 200
> 1 turbo engine - easily upgradible, don't have to take off 15% HP for
> altitude
> 2. larger - can put more stuff in it, Subwoofers, snowboards, crates
> of beer, stuff..you know..
> 3. not as sporty - doesn't scream 'Arest me NOW!' to cops
> - doesn't scream 'race me!' at stop lights
1) Absolutely -- engine work to improve perf on the 20v coupe motor will
be a) very hard, and b) cost a small fortune.
2) Bigger is better?
3) The coupe has a very high stealth factor, too -- especially for a 2 door
car.
I can't really comment on the 200 (never driven one), but I can say that the
coupe
is a very nice all-around coupe. The power is OK for a sports car (you
definitely
won't blow away any of the cars you mention in a drag race, tho), and the
handling is very good out of the box. In fact, it is very hard to improve on
the out of the box car overall -- any improvements are going to come at the
expense of something else.
- -frank
- --
fhd@interport.net | The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
1 212 559 5534 | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world
1 917 992 2248 | to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
1 718 746 7061 | unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
From: tsedens@compusmart.ab.ca (tom sedens)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:11:31 -0700
Subject: Re:
> who likes, is satisfied with, enjoys dealing with his AUDI dealer?
>Does anyone?
I don't know if there is anyone else from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada even on
this list, but if there is, I'm sure they'll agree that Southgate VW-Audi
is an excellent dealership. They are very willing to take care of anything
that even SEEMS wrong. I think Norden Autohaus (the other (ex) Audi
dealer) sucks very muchly. They are pretty snobbish - I don't know whether
that has anything to do with them being a Porsche dealership or not... :-)
Tom Sedens
tsedens@compusmart.ab.ca
'91 20V QC
Necronomicon II, Sin.Th.Sys
******************************************************************************
"Five to one,
One to five,
No one gets out here alive."
- Jim Morrison
------------------------------
From: Frank Deutschmann <fhd@interport.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:28:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: HP/torque curves?
Would anyone happen to know where to locate a set of HP/torque curves
for the Audi 20v 5 cylinder engines (both turbo and NA)? (I'm interested
in both the Sport Quattro and '90-on 90/Coupe.)
Also, what is the current record for max HP/torque out of these powerplants --
I'd assume a turbo would hold the record, so is it Ned's Stage XXX? I'm
curious about max in the real-world sense -- in other words, max on a motor
that can go a min of, say, 50k miles between teardowns (that is an absolute
min!). Anyone know the details of internal engine prep on this record-setter?
- -frank
- --
fhd@interport.net | The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
1 212 559 5534 | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world
1 917 992 2248 | to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
1 718 746 7061 | unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
From: erict@cta.com (Eric Thorstenson)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 14:05:30 EDT
Subject: Dealers (was Re: ??)
> who likes, is satisfied with, enjoys dealing with his AUDI dealer?
>Does anyone?
Well, I can't comment on the service department (Me?? Let
someone else work on my cars?? Hell no!!) but the parts
guys at Rockville Audi here in Maryland are pretty cool.
They have, on several occasions, spent quite a bit of time
helping with odd parts issues, including bailing me out
of a couple of Carlsen snafus. My girlfriend even likes
them, cause when she goes in there by herself, they don't
cop the usual "you're just a dumb blonde" attitude that
most parts guys do.
Can it be said that I *enjoy* going there? Well, given that
a trip there usually involves the lightening of my wallet,
that might be a little strong....
Eric T. '86 5kS
erict@ra.cta.com
------------------------------
From: T_BROWN@nise-p.nosc.mil
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:31:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 86 Coupe horror story
This is really a sad story but many of your problems don't seem to
be "Audi" related i.e. stolen radios, bent antennas, highway debris,
broken Kenwood etc. I've owned an 86 Coupe since new and, other than
routine maintenance, it has been virtually trouble free. I had the
broken brake light problem on both lights. The heat from the lamps
causes a plastic rivet to melt and the contact seperates. Next set of
brake pads get Repco metal masters. ORganic pads are pretty
worthless. I don't have the auto tranny or digital dash. Can't help
you there.
Are you sure your E-mail handle is Jesster and not Jinx???
------------------------------
From: Peter Orban <ORBAN@NRCAMT.IAMT.NRC.CA>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:33 EST
Subject: Re: Quattro Digest V2 #521
> From: Steve Evans <sevans@radstone.co.uk>
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:38:13 BST
> Subject: Torsen Diff. operation
>
> I am rather curious to know how a Torsen diff. works. I know that it is free
> under braking, yet distributes power between front and rear within certain
> ratios (75%/25% being the maximum difference I believe) when under load.
>
> How on earth does this box of cogs work? Can anybody out there explain it?
Think about spiral gear drives, which are self locking if you want to
drive them from the ring gear (depending on the angle of the screw and
the coefficient of friction). The torsen diff uses a pair of spiral gears.
Imagine a conventional differential with bevel gears. In the torsen the side
gears are ring gears, the pinion or planetary gears are the spirals. Each side
gear has it own spiral gear. The two spiral gears are connected to each other
with spur gears and their shaft is carried by the differential ring gear
(crown gear). The spiral gear drives work close to their locking range when
both wheels transfer toque to them. If one side looses load the spiral gear
drive on that side locks and that locks the other side as well because the
spiral gears are connected together with the spur gears.
It sounds confusing, but it becomes clear if you look at a digram of it.
Peter
- --
Peter Orban
National Research Council of Canada
Internet: peter.orban@nrc.ca
------------------------------
From: Brooks Ellis <brooks@fortnet.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:56:52 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Dealer service
> who likes, is satisfied with, enjoys dealing with his AUDI dealer?
> Does anyone?
While I do not 'enjoy' going to my dealer per se, because it means my
car is broke again, I enjoy getting it fixed, and having it run well
again. My local dealer, Ed Carrol Audi/Porcshe/Mistubishi has a pretty
good Audi dealership/service department, and the will help me diagnose
things, let me borrow parts to see it they work, and generally are pretty
good guys. ( I don't mean to offend any ladies, but there aren't any
working there, so don't get on my case for not being PC )
Brooks ( currently contemplating a '90 coupe Q w/ 120k miles on it )
------------------------------
From: Nick Deutsch <deutscn@Operatns.mohawkc.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:01:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Quattro debate
My 2 pennies worth: I own a 20 v. 90 Q. and I definitely don`t blow away
Camaros, Rx 7, etc. at traffic lights. In fact my first impression of the
Audi was that it was surprisingly sluggish from 0-60! This car is a blast
when you cruise at 140- 150 km. (so far I`ve been lucky...)and I feel
generally very safe in it -but I avoid dragging at lights on purpose.
------------------------------
From: Nick Deutsch <deutscn@Operatns.mohawkc.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:06:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re:
My Audi dealer in Oakville, Ont. is EXCELLENT! Not cheap -but I ve been
more than satisfied with them so far:,. OAKVILLE VW and AUDI. Its a family
owned and operated business, dealt with them for over 18 years.
------------------------------
From: "Lebens, Rick J" <M245884@flt-test-02.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:35:12 CST
Subject: signats
Those clever ASCII pictures are lost on those of us that can't figure
out how to specify anything but a true type font on their mailer.
------------------------------
From: glen.powell@smc.com
Date: 25 Oct 1995 15:57:40 -0400
Subject: Re: HP/torque curves?
The highest HP number I have seen in print was for some ur-Q European
RallyCross (cars on a motocross motorcycle type course) cars. The number
quoted was like 750 or 775 HP. No, that's not a typo. I'll try to dig up
the piece on it.....
-glen
------------------------------
From: "Lebens, Rick J" <M245884@flt-test-02.mdc.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:10:31 CST
Subject: Re: S6 Pricing
>>From: "Psychos 'R Us" <honge@creighton.edu>
>>... (wait... I must be in the U.S.! Heck, I live in the "Tax Me
>>State").
>Do you mean Minnesota, the land of 10K taxes?
Or Missouri The Screw Me State
------------------------------
From: Dave Eaton <dave.eaton@minedu.govt.nz>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 09:06:33 -1200
Subject: re: torsen diff info
i'll post an article about the operation of a torsen diff tomorrow if possible.
racecar engineering mag did an article on diff operations last year. i'll dig
it out when i get home...
- -dave.
------------------------------
From: Lynn Smith <lynn@dvcorp.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:30:41 -0400
Subject: 4000SQ: Control arm bushings
Anyone care to enlighten me as to the symptons of bad control arm bushings?
My mechanic has suggested that the rears are shot.
TIA,
- --
Lynn Smith - '84 4KSQ
lynn@dvcorp.com
------------------------------
From: raf40@oes.amdahl.com (Richard Funnell)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:31:16 -0800
Subject: more books
Q'rs,
Does anyone know of a source for Quattro books. I am specifically
interested in the Brooklands Gold series on the Quattro, and just found out
that EWA has run out. Any other sources? Any other books I should look
at? I vaguely recall a book called Quattro, 1980 - 1991 or something like
that.
BTW, EWA is offering 20% off everything except mags this month (no
affiliations other than their hand in my wallet, and it's not making
deposits). TIA
Richard Funnell,
San Jose, California
'83 urQ
'87 560 SL
------------------------------
From: BrettD516@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:33:54 -0400
Subject: '87 5000CS Turb. AC compressor problem
I have a 1987 5000CS Turbo whose A/C compressor has kicked the bucket. While
it still works(barely), it is incredibly loud and the car shudders every time
it comes on. I have removed the clutch relay, and I don't think I'll need
the A/C until late spring, but the mechanic told me that it will cost 600 for
the compressor(made by AC Delco) and he'll install it for 200 (including
freon or whatever they're using). This is the third compressor that the car
has munched, the second because they didn't flush all the metal shavings from
the first one. This one has lasted for about 3 years. Now, the mech. said
that Delco guarantees the compressor for 6 months, Audi for about a year. He
also said that this is a problem with this compressor, and that the new one
will last 3 years before it has to be replaced. This is slightly rediculous
to pay 800 bucks every 3 years. Can someone enlighten me to the
possibilities of get it replaced or some reimbursement? Have other people
had this same problem, or is my mechanic BSing me?
PS:My audi starts great in the cold, but if it's warm and not run in a little
while, it takes 10-20 seconds to catch. The same mechanic told us that it is
a problem with all 87 5000CS Turbos. So did the guy at the parts desk at the
local dealership. Do other people have the same problem?
Help!
Please email direct, Brettd516@aol.com, thanks!
------------------------------
From: Bruce Bell <bbell@csn.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:34:50 -0600
Subject: Re: AUDI & Mercedes
>anybody want me off the list yet? :)
>
>
>eliot
>
Abolutely NOT!!
>........ bmw and mercedes
>together with the other upscale brands are now building f*** trucks,
Appears you could use some help in spelling "farm" though. :) Perhaps you
didn't want to risk offending any agrarians on the list.
Bruce Bell
bbell@csn.net
------------------------------
From: Jeremy R King <kingjer@eng.auburn.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:47:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Audi and Volvo comercial commentary
Dan,
I think I watch enough TV to not have to read play by play commentary on
commercials when what I want is to read some interesting information
about my favorite cars.
I'm not condemning you, but with 72 messages to weed through today I'd
really rather read stuff that pertains a little more to the cars.
Jeremy R. King
Audi at Heart
I did see both the OVLOV and A4 commercials.
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Oehler" <mjo@ai.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:54:54 -0400
Subject: Dealers (was Re: ??)
After years of sacrifices to the mightly Audi Gods,
I will continue to do so...
First, not all auto manufactures are willing to carry parts for their
older cars. Inventory costs a lot.
Imagine asking the dealer for a part and the reply is "we don't stock
that part." You say "just special order it". The reply is "[you moron]
it cannot be order period." So you go to the junk yard and that part
is stripped off every car! -> I've seen this happen. <-
My Coupe is 13 years old, and the smallest part has always be obtainable.
It may cost a lot ;-! but I can get it.
I beleive that Audi can do this because they reuse parts for YEARS and
on many different cars. This is not so for Hondas' or Toyotas'
Second, yesterday, I just walked into Tischer Audi (in MD), handed them
my old muffler, and said give me a new one for free! They pleasantly
said "yes, sir'.
Not many people know that all VW/Audi mufflers are guaranteed for life,
(this precludes the orginal muffler. You have to buy one from the parts
department). If wears out, bring it back. You will get another one for
free. That's service!
Just wondering how many VW Rabbit parts go into my Coupe?
- -Mike
------------------------------
From: sjagernauth@attmail.com (Stephen I Jagernauth)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:57:51 -0500
Subject: Addition to Audi family:5kcstq
I educated my cousin on the virtues of a 5kcstq and saw a nice-sounding car
for sale here 2 weeks ago. A great big thank you! to Shef Corey for posting
the ad and checking out the car for us. It's in great condition, good paint,
great leather interior, no major mechanical problems. New clutch, struts,
ps pump etc. He bought the car in RI for $3k and learnt to drive a stick on
the 3-hr drive home to Long Island, NY! Anyway, I saw the car for the first
time this weekend, swapped my stiffer wastegate spring in and we went looking
for some twisty back roads here in PA. The awd definitely makes a huge
difference over my fwd 5kt. I quickly adopted the Hans 'sideways' Stuck style
of driving and the car would not break loose its tires (even though
they're some noname "Defender" brand). I even lifted off the gas in the
middle of a sharp downhill turn, no problem! I don't have the nerve to try
that in the 911. Now I know what I'm missing, I want one!
Minor glitch: there's an annoying resonance at the clutch pedal at precisely
3200 rpm, it stops if you barely touch the pedal, anyone BTDT?
Steve Jagernauth '74 911/3.0l Bahama Blue
sjagernauth@attmail.com '87 951 Pearl Black (**FOR SALE**)
(908) 658-8289 Work '87 Audi 5KCST & '88 Audi 5Ks
------------------------------
From: PAUL SOUZA 202-260-6061 <SOUZA.PAUL@epamail.epa.gov>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:54:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: '86 Coupe GT horror story
Well, interesting stories concerning your GT. My GT is an '85
and I've had similar stories concerning it. Though it has been
without a doubt one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned
(including a 78 atoyoT wagon, which I'd still have today If I
hadn't let little brother "borrow it".....). But, I have to say
I too have had horror stories concerning the car:
- Jan/90 - After owning the car 2 months, I had parked in the lot
at school and was getting my notes together, when a
guy in a huge Chevy van backs in to my car and takes
off, while I'm in it. After shock wears off, I have
to race after him. If it wasn't for the fact his
liscense plate was imbedded in my grill, he never
would have believed me.
- Mar/90 - Guy who does repair work on my hood does first class
paint job. Wife's favourite past time becomes peeling
the clearcoat off, giggling the whole time.
- Oct/90 - Lose first antenna via roving band of junior
highschoolers.
- Nov/90 - Roommate needs to back said coupe from behind his car.
Borrows keys and says "sure I can drive a stick!"
I get in later on to find out the gears are a little
hard to find. Turns out he forgot to "push down"
before putting car in reverse. Never fessed up to it.
- May/91 - Made the mistake of putting on Eagle GT+4's.
Never again.
- Sep/91 - Lose second antenna. Must be those damn kids again.
By cheezy radio shack rubber antenna. Don't snap, but
damn ugly.
- Jun/92 - Lose Third antenna. Those kids are motivated. Bite
the bullet and by electric antenna. Move.
- Oct/92 - Down at Nags Head, NC. Locals jump up and down on top
of my coupe, proclaiming the whole time they hate
BMW's. Start drinking more.
- All the Time - This car, for some reason, attracts Mustang GT's
like flies to S**T. Go figure.
- Feb/94 - Tear motor apart for more HP/torque. Meanwhile I get
married, then buy a house. Cars sits for a year and a
half in folk's garage.
- Mar/95 - Car almost done. Join Quattro list. Sanity returns.
- May/95 - Car now daily driver. Still attracts Mustangs, wife
still giggles while picking clearcoat.
Yeah, I've had bad luck with my GT too. Funny, I still love it.
But other than standard maintanence, no problems. Don't have
that digital dash, though. If it had it, I wouldn't have bought
it. Hate 'em. Next on the list: Finally getting it
painted......
-Cello
85 Coupe GT
85 5ks
------------------------------
From: sjagernauth@attmail.com (Stephen I Jagernauth)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:50:18 -0500
Subject: Outer CV Joint/Loctite
Someone had trouble getting the CV joint off. I did it the hard way
a few years ago on my 5kcst when I had to replace a CV boot i.e.
banging at it using a wood block/hammer on the sacrificial axle
nut until it broke loose. It took 2 days of repeated oiling and
banging. I'm doing a clutch and CV boot R&R right now on a VW Fox
and the layout is the same as the Audi. I took the easy way out this
time and rented a large puller. Cost $10/day, well worth time saved.
The Audi Haynes manual show a VW/Audi puller which bolts on to the
wheel lug holes which I couldn't find the last time. A regular 2 or
3-arm puller will work on the rotor hub.
I stopped at VW dealer for some dealer-only parts and queried the
service manager on the appropriate use of Loctite and anti-seize on
CV bolts and the axle splines. He said NOT to use it though I think
the Audi manual said to use Loctite on the axle splines.
P.S. I found out that a Dremel tool works great for cutting off rusted
exhaust bolts.
Steve Jagernauth '74 911/3.0l Bahama Blue
sjagernauth@attmail.com '87 951 Pearl Black (**BUY ME!**)
(908) 658-8289 Work '87 Audi 5KCST & '88 Audi 5Ks
------------------------------
From: LToy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:05:47 -0400
Subject: Re: AUDI & Mercedes
>the 20 valve non-turbo 5 is widely acknowledged to be not one of
>audi's better efforts. all the stereotyping of 4 valve heads apply.
>however, look at the same engine with a turbo (and other refinements,
>such as a lighter dual mass flywheel, direct ignition) as deployed on
>the S4 to such devastating effect. peaky? yeah 1950 rpm max torque,
>perfectly flat thru 4700 rpm and a 280 foot pounds 15 second overboost.
>this engine is an engineer's dream.
Keep in mind: although Audi didn't use the 4 valve head until '91 (in the
US) it was available earlier in Europe AND on the VW 1.8 4cyl motor starting
in '87 (Scirocco). In other words, an "early" multi-valve motor. My folks
had an '88 GLI, 1.8L 16v--yes, the stereotypes do apply. Remember that VW
"announced" that motor in '85 or '86 and took awhile to get the "features"
(no torque, among others) out.
>a vtec can rev to the blazes, but with only 110 lbft or so to play
>with, it is largely a curiousity. and thanks once again to a nice
>cosy relationship to the media, this engine can produce acceleration
>numbers not reproducible in real life. not surprising. a VR6
>powered car or an eclipse turbo is much much quicker than a vtec.
>yes, i have driven them all. it's all about torque.
Wait a minute--you're comparing apples and oranges--the VR6 is 2.8L, the
Eclipse a Turbo (2.0L, 210 hp and close to 200 lb-ft!)--btw, which VTEC?
Integra? Prelude? NSX? BUT--you're absolutely right--torque is the name
of the game--as they say, there's no substitute for cubic inches (or cc's).
As for drivability, I was thinking about say, an '87 Celica and even some
mundane Hondas--our '89 Accord, for example. They don't drive like
multi-valve motors, but then they weren't tuned for high peak
power--especially in the case of the Accord. BTW, who remembers the original
Honda CVCC motor? another multi-valve head, different use, different result
>
>according to performance car, the current 4 valve head found in all
>audis and VWs came from the 306bhp sport quattro. the current gti
>16V, not currently imported has a new head designed with more torque
>in mind. my guess is that the original 4 valve head design used in
>the S1 was optimized for forced induction, which is why the S4 is such
>a killer and the non-turbo versions pretty tame.
Ummm...the sport quattro I saw (Larry Vollum's, Portland, OR) has a very
different head from that in the current VWs and Audis. I believe one cam is
driven by a toothed belt (like ours) but the second cam is gear driven from
the first, instead of a chain. Also, the head has mechanical lifters.
And...the original VW/Audi 4 valve street motor was not force-fed--just a
bit small and it revved high (7200 redline in the Jetta). Though I never
drove one, I understand the 2.0L 16v ('91 VW GTI/GLI) motor was much improved
in these respects. Just imagine if Audi had taken the 2.0L 16v I4 motor and
made it into a turbo 2.5L 20v I5--I can see 250hp as the starting point, and
by the time Ned finished with it...oh never mind.
ldt.
------------------------------
From: esw5@cornell.edu (Ernest Wong)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:17:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Dealers (was Re: ??)
[from Mike Oehler]
[rusted off]
>Second, yesterday, I just walked into Tischer Audi (in MD), handed them
>my old muffler, and said give me a new one for free! They pleasantly
>said "yes, sir'.
>
I bought my mid-resonator from dealer. They said it was guaranteed for
life. It's on my 87 5000s. Waiting for rear muffler to rust lighten itself
out (aluminized Ansa. Still holding together at 1.5 years).
Then I can go for maybe a glass-pak for more growl. :-) Car sounded great
when the factory muffler had a wallet sized hole in the bottom of it.
But I would like to keep some back-pressure for the TORQUE. God knows I
need it from 2000-4000. Especially on the hills.
BTW. Car sounded terrible when there was exhaust leak at cat. T'was like a
little bleaty MG (no offense to fun drophead coupes). Mid-pipe prolly does
something for the sound . . .
Ernest Wong
esw5@cornell.edu
------------------------------
From: "Tom Forhan" <TFORHAN@hr.house.gov>
Date: 25 Oct 1995 16:17:16 EST
Subject: Re: HP/torque curves?
Please post to the list, I am looking for curve info also.
Tom F.
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: HP/torque curves?
Author: QUATTROOWNER (INTERNET.QUATTROO) at HR
Date: 10/25/95 4:10 PM
Would anyone happen to know where to locate a set of HP/torque curves
for the Audi 20v 5 cylinder engines (both turbo and NA)? (I'm interested
in both the Sport Quattro and '90-on 90/Coupe.)
Also, what is the current record for max HP/torque out of these powerplants --
I'd assume a turbo would hold the record, so is it Ned's Stage XXX? I'm
curious about max in the real-world sense -- in other words, max on a motor
that can go a min of, say, 50k miles between teardowns (that is an absolute
min!). Anyone know the details of internal engine prep on this record-setter?
- -frank
- --
fhd@interport.net | The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
1 212 559 5534 | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world
1 917 992 2248 | to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
1 718 746 7061 | unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
End of Quattro Digest V2 #522
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