Re: vr4

[Eliot Lim <eliot@u.washington.edu>]

heh heh heh... all hot now, because i'm criticising YOUR BROTHER'S CAR.

> Goofy toys that are ALL show....  A simpler copy of the VR6 corrado don't you
> think?

i was ready for this.  there is an engineering paper published on the
positive contributions made by the corrado's rear wing.  if you like i can
give you the reference.  it is in german, though.  yes, it is gimmicky, but
you notice that it is not an option.  it is an integral part of the entire
setup of the car.  (the paper sez so)

on the pig, you have the cheap lame fwd non turbo versions w/o the wing. 
that tells me that the wing is nothing more than a decorative afterthought.
ooo, it even moves up and down!  if the wing was part of the overall
aerodynamics of the car, it would not be an option.

the 911's movable whale tail on the non turbo models is also not an 
option.. does that tell you anything?

>  Not original thinking by the Japs......  Or the Porsche toyz....  All
> show, really?  do you know if any or all of them adds downforce or reduces
> underchassis turbulence.....   Me thinks not.......

i haven't seen any claims of what it does other than add drag.  perhaps,
you being a great fan of it can enlighten me.  :)
 
be careful with your abbreviations guy, the PC police will come haul
you away!!!

> >there is also a big weight difference between european audis and american
> >audis,

> got to show me that one eliot, me thinks you are a little off here....  What
> is BIG?

the european v8 is a tad under 3700 pounds (the original 1988 one 
anyway); the american one is 3900+ almost 4000. 
 
> >the rx7 is proof that a wonderful concept falls on deaf american ears.  

> Concept of what eliot, a race car?

engineering concepts are not very subjective.  the lighter your car is, the
fewer engineering problems there are to solve.  it is poor engineering to let
the fat form and then react to countering its ill effects.  get it? 

> >they have to toe the line like mitsu who just goes ahead and makes whale
> >blubber with a zillion bhp and 8 mpg engines, knowing that the americans
> like
> >it, engineering purity be dammed.  
 
> Say what?  You should read more eliot......   That RX7 and the VR are in
> close company on mileage, so forget that.....  You are arguing to argue, not
> by facts or rationale

are you forgetting that a rotary is famous for being a gas guzzler?
put a rotary in the fat ugly pig and pump it up to those same performance
levels and see what kind of mileage you get!  3.5 mpg, i'll bet.  

hee hee hee.

> >name me one race engineer who doesn't try him dammnest to cut down on fat!
> 
> So, eliot, which argument do you want to take, the track or the street.... 

both. 

> I
> can take either one, but you need to focus.....   On the track, fix the wings
> clear the exh,  pull 500lbs of crap out of the VR and do the things that

oh good, admission that there's unnecessary crap in the pig...

> "RACE ENGINEERS" do, which is to maximize the volumetric efficiency of a
> motor, and my money would be on DOHC V6 TT as a start, way before trimming
> little if any excess fat off an RX7 t, and AWD to boot.....   

and admission that the rx7 is lean and mean.... 

how about telling me about the VR4's competition success or lack thereof?
i admit that i don't follow production based racing that closely, but
a good guess is that not many, if anyone races the pig.  maybe you can
be the first, and if you win, i'll eat my words.. heck, i'll even buy
you a beer.  

> >if you think that prostituting oneself for the american masses is ok, that's
> >your cup of tea.  there will be others like me who will continue to act as a
> >conscience!  :)

> Please, eliot.....  You need to drive these and post your impressions, me
> thinks your conscience would make more rational evaluations.....

i am not disputing the fact that it can pull high g forces or attain lots of
speed.  i am bashing the entire concept of a fat pig "high performance"
mobile loaded with useless sh*t that don't contribute to its performance. 
it's just crass, and it's also aimed at a very specific segment of the
american population... those that let testosterone control their heads.

sports cars should be light first and powerful second.  just my opinion. 
yes, i would be really happy if audis were lighter too.  


eliot