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quattro-digest Sunday, 5 May 1996 Volume 03 : Number 433
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Car Clubs
Men/Women drivers
Two questions...
A couple of general questions...
New Member- New questions?
Re: A couple of general questions...
Re: Valve timing
Re: rear caliper won't come off disk
Judge Ito and the A8
Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
A8
5k/100/200 trailer hitch...
Price, 90 Quattro -1988
Re: A couple of general questions...
BTCC qualifying at Thruxton...
A4Q wins SATCC race at Kyalami...
Audi Cleans Up in First STW Race
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Yakubik <75363.2524@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 05 May 96 03:09:58 EDT
Subject: Car Clubs
What do other car clubs get for their money:
A recent Viper event sponsored (read: subsidized) by Dodge got "...for their
$200 price of admission. Aside from being wined and dined, Viper owners
convoyed, behind a police escort, to Michigan International Speedway, where they
rolled down the track in a parade lap and then watched the International Race Of
Champions."
The last time I "convoyed" behind a police escort the day wasn't quite as
pleasant...
The main point of these manufacturer sponsored clubs is customer loyalty: 61% of
Saturn owners replaced their cars with Saturns. Customer satisfaction and
dealer responsiveness can go a long way with a mediocre car. Just think what it
would do with a good car like the A4.
But Audi's already selling all they can make, and customer satisfaction and
dealer support are long term strategies, aren't they?
No, I won't trade my 200tqw for a Saturn, or a Viper. (not even to you Bob)
Joe Yakubik
------------------------------
From: Joe Yakubik <75363.2524@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 05 May 96 03:09:59 EDT
Subject: Men/Women drivers
I only threw the Audi tidbits out before. Dredging the statistics class up from
the bottom of my mind I should have known someone would say two data points out
of a set don't mean a lot unless you look at the whole set. For those who
missed it earlier, of the cars where one gender predominately drives these are
the extremes.
Here's the whole list:
Men Women
1. Dodge Viper 97% 1. Kia Sephia 74%
2. Porsche 911 92 2. Toyota Paseo 71
3. Audi S4 Quattro 92 3. Geo Storm 70
4. Acura NSX 91 4. VW Cabrio 69
5. BMW 8-series 88 5. Pontiac Sunbird 67
6. Porsche 928 85 6. Saturn Sports Coupe 66
7. Mercedes S-class 84 7. Dodge Shadow 64
8. Audi V8 Quattro 83 8. Hyundai Scoupe 64
9. Toyota Supra 81 9. Eagle Summit 63
10. Mazda RX-7 80 10. Eagle Talon 63
Source: Car Smart, May 1996
Joe Yakubik
------------------------------
From: "John \"Magnus\" Altinger" <altinger@max-net.com>
Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 12:49:01 -0700
Subject: Two questions...
Okee.
On my 84 5000S, there is the idle stablizer valve. On my car, the plug is
UNplugged. It was that way when I bought the car last week. The car seems
to run just fine as is. When I plug it in, the car idles almost at DOUBLE
the speed. I asked the dealer and he said the valve is likely fried.
Am I hurting anything by leaving it unplugged? The car isn't showing ANY
signs of pollution or anything. Where is the actual valve? Is it a pain
to get to? The dealer wants about $400 Canadian. Is it recommended to go
to a wrecker and yank one?
Danke.
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 07:21:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A couple of general questions...
I've got a few general questions:
1) I'm in the process of removing the car phone that came with my car when I
bought it ... the antenna on the rear window is resisting my efforts to come
off gracefully and I'm reluctant to force it given the cost of replacing the
unique "quattro" glass. I checked with a shop but they wouldn't tell me how
to it since they usually charge for this service... Any tips?
2) The Bentley manual for the '89 200q does not show how to remove the front
speaker grills so I can replace the speakers ... any clues/tips?
3) When my car was caught in a cinder-storm a month ago, the intercooler got
a good portion of its paint removed (along with that on the rest of the car)
and I'd like to repaint it to improve its appearance ... any recommendations
as to which type of paint to use so as not to compromise heat transfer? Has
anyone tried the radiator paint that's featured in the new Eastwood catalog?
4) Is there a "magic" lotion or potion that makes it easy to remove the body
cavity wax that's starting to leak out of the doors, etc. now that summer is
here and it's getting hot? I've tried lots of things but only scraping will
work thus far and I'm concerned about damaging the finish.
Thanks!
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l * * * * * * *
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
------------------------------
From: "SAMUEL LETZRING" <SLETZ@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 96 13:24:41 UT
Subject: New Member- New questions?
My first submission to the list- so I might not have all the jargon down yet.
I have an '86 4KCSQ with a couple of problems. #1 is the exhaust flange from
the header to the cat. conv. The rotatable flange on the header has rusted
through- header is OK. Any way to put a new flange on the header without
replacing it? Also, both flanges on cat are corroded- anyone have luck welding
new flanges to an old cat? Cat seems good.
#2 is rack. Rack shaft rotates a bit when I push on right wheel. Does this
mean rack is bad? Any chance to rebuild? Are used any good? Who has best
prices?
Moving to New Mexico soon- so no more rusty New York winters for this AUDI.
Any good AUDI parts places in NM?
S. Letzring
Honeoye Falls, NY
------------------------------
From: Mike Loeks <neanderthal@ardvark.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:37:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A couple of general questions...
At 05:45 AM 5/5/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I've got a few general questions:
>
>1) I'm in the process of removing the car phone that came with my car when I
>bought it ... the antenna on the rear window is resisting my efforts to come
>off gracefully and I'm reluctant to force it given the cost of replacing the
>unique "quattro" glass. I checked with a shop but they wouldn't tell me how
>to it since they usually charge for this service... Any tips?
>
Cellular antennas are generally bonded to the windows using double sided
foam tape. The best way to remove this that I have found is to put steady
traction on it from one side to kind of peel it up. If that doesn't work,
try using a razor blade to split the tape in two.
>2) The Bentley manual for the '89 200q does not show how to remove the front
>speaker grills so I can replace the speakers ... any clues/tips?
>
>
If you refer to the speakers in the dash, on my '86 5kq there is a little
louver thing on the side of the speaker grill that you pry off to expose two
screws. Remove the screws and the grill lifts off (has tabs on the other side).
*******************************************************************
Michael Loeks
'86 5kcstq - Red w/ Fuchs/D60A2 wheels 1.8 bar boost
'86 5kcstq - Grey w/ stock wheels/Comp T/A HR4 1.8 bar boost
'84 Ford F350 dually flatbed(NOW we're talking utility)
Warren, Oregon
*******************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Robert Houk - SMCC Bos Desktop Hardware <rdh@UrQ.East.Sun.COM>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve timing
a short but very important question......
Which method is used to set the valve timing?
Is it
a) Dot on cam sprocket lined up with cam cover and flywheel '0'
or
b) Dot on cam sprocket lined up with cam cover and mark on crankshaft pulley
lined up with pointer on block
What? You forgot to look before you took it apart?
-RDH
------------------------------
From: esw5@cornell.edu (Ernest Wong)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:18:37 -0400
Subject: Re: rear caliper won't come off disk
>In a message dated 96-05-04 14:00:05 EDT, you write:
>
[coupe Q brake troubles deleted]
>>Christian Long
>>1990 90
>>1990 Coupe Q
>
>Christain,
>
>I don't know if your Coupe Q has similar calipers with the 4Kcsq but on my 4K
>I had to remove the bolts to the guide pins in order to separate the caliper
>from the rotor. Hold the guide pin with an open end wrench as you loosen the
>bolt. This sepasrates the brake pad carrier from the caliper. Hope this
>helps...
>
>Bruce Johnson
>85 4Kcsq
>Olympia, WA
C.Long wrote about pads getting hung on the rotor lip machined in through
use. I might run into the same problem.
Wonder if it is possible to pry the pads back using screwdriver or other
levering device. Watching for brake fluid level in the reservoir, of
course.
I'm replacing both pads and disc so any damage to rotor won't bother me.
Do I need to get some CRC BrakeKleen to clean up all the crud around my
brakes before I work on them?????
Thanks,
A brake virgin here.
Ernest Wong
esw5@cornell.edu
------------------------------
From: "Paul E. Rivera" <rivera@deltanet.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 09:57:35 -0700
Subject: Judge Ito and the A8
It has been confirmed by Jack Weir at Rusnak.
Judge Ito did borrow the A8 for a day from Rusnak.
Reportedly it was also returned with half the rubber missing from
the tires and many kilometers (this is a Euro model) put on the speedo.
Paul Rivera
------------------------------
From: tblank@teleport.com (Ted Blank)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
Ed-
I think Milt is onto something. Last year I had to replace a perforated
exhaust manifold on my '875KCSTQ. The exact part was hard to find and too
$$$. The new 2 piece manifold was also too $$$. I found a good straight
used part that fit right but
the throat was slightly different. It went on and works fine, but now I
have to carefully feather the throttle because I run to 1.5 boost without
even trying. The fuel pump shut off at that point makes for a jerky ride.
Of course, I continue to agonize over whether to ground the shutoff circuit
and see how much boost I really have.
PS - Charlie, how's the adjustable cutoff circuit coming?
>I've been asking around about an upgrade to the exhaust system for my 5KCSTQ
>and just spoke to Milt at Europart. He advised me to stay with stock because
>things get pretty touchy when the backpressure is altered. Just thought I'd
>pass this along. Maybe it's common knowledge on the qlist. If not, and if
>there is a different opinion out there, I'd be interested to hear it.
>
>In any case, I appreciate Milt's honesty and will definitely include Europart
>in any parts searching I do in the future.
>
>Ed Kellock
>Lansing, IA
>87 5KCSTQ
>87 CGT 2.3
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" <graydon@apollo.gmi.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Ted Blank wrote:
> Ed-
> I think Milt is onto something. Last year I had to replace a perforated
I think the following just proves that Milt is on drugs.
> $$$. The new 2 piece manifold was also too $$$. I found a good straight
> used part that fit right but
> the throat was slightly different. It went on and works fine, but now I
> have to carefully feather the throttle because I run to 1.5 boost without
> even trying. The fuel pump shut off at that point makes for a jerky ride.
Seems like you got lucky and found something that really works. What car
did it come off of? I want one too.
Later,
Graydon D. Stuckey
graydon@apollo.gmi.edu
Flint, Michigan USA
'86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage II
------------------------------
From: aspeer@mail.utexas.edu (Andrew J. Speer)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 13:11:18 -0500
Subject: A8
For those of you that haven't checked it out yet, take a look at
http://www.audi.be/a8/indexe.html for some interesting technical info on the
A8. Unless you speak French or Flemish (this is the Belgian Audi Web-page)
make sure you pick the "English" language option!
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 14:59:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 5k/100/200 trailer hitch...
Guess what? A guy that I sold some parts to today has a hitch on his '88 5k
that he recently bought from Pep Boys for $140. I compared it to the Da'Lan
hitch on my '89 200q (for which I paid approx. $220 plus shipping!) and they
are identical save for the Da'Lan sticker.
If you're in the market for a hitch, you might want to check this out before
you order one directly from Da'Lan.
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l * * * * * * *
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
------------------------------
From: cobram@channel1.com (Cobram)
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 14:56:00 -0640
Subject: Price, 90 Quattro -1988
vjokic@iaw.on.ca (V. Jokic - Push) asks:
VJ-P> I am a new member on the list. Considering to buy an Audi 90 Q
VJ-P> (1988). Could someone tell me what is a fair market value of this
VJ-P> vehicle? It has about 85 k on the clock and seems to be in very good
VJ-P> condition. All options, including ABS. The Seller is asking $5,000.
That's an excellent price if the mileage is real.
1988 90 Series 4D Sedan Quattro Wholesale Prices:
/-------Condition-------\
Model Loan Value Clean Average Rough
H*089 $5590 $7065 $5770 $4465
BCNU
... I used to read books. Now I read .qwk files.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 15:20:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: A couple of general questions...
> Cellular antennas are generally bonded to the windows using double sided
> foam tape. The best way to remove this that I have found is to put steady
> traction on it from one side to kind of peel it up. If that doesn't work,
> try using a razor blade to split the tape in two.
I tried the first approach but it's not budging; I tried the second approach
but couldn't put enough pressure on the razor blade to cut through the tape,
at least not without the risk of cutting myself. I'm thinking there must be
a solvent of some sort that will dissolve the tape or maybe an incantation I
can mutter while pulling on it harder...
> If you refer to the speakers in the dash, on my '86 5kq there is a little
> louver thing on the side of the speaker grill that you pry off to expose
> two screws. Remove the screws and the grill lifts off (has tabs on the
> other side).
My '89 200q has a different style dash and the speaker grills are obviously
attached by some other method. It looks like prying them should work but I
would like to confirm this before I start leaning heavily on my crowbar...
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l * * * * * * *
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 15:20:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: BTCC qualifying at Thruxton...
NEWS FROM THE AUTO TRADER RAC
TOURING CAR CHAMPIONSHIP
Thruxton, 04/05/96
CHAMPIONSHIP leaders Frank Biela and Audi enjoyed a day of
mixed fortunes at Thruxton today (Saty) in official qualifying for
Monday's rounds five and six of the Auto Trader RAC Touring Car
Championship.
For although Biela recorded the fastest ever lap of the Hampshire
circuit -- at an average speed of more than 110mph -- in the day's
first qualifying session, he crashed out of the second session before he
had set a meaningful time. Thus the 31-year-old German will start
Monday's round five of the series from pole position but will be at the
back of the grid for round six.
Biela's crash came at the ultra-fast Campbell corner on what is the
quickest circuit on the BTCC calendar. It is believed he lost control
of his Audi A4 on oil dropped by the car of his team-mate, John
Bintcliffe, which had blown an engine. Biela destroyed a wall and
badly damaged his car, but was unhurt. 'It was a big impact,' said
Biela. 'I feel sure there was oil on the track.' The Audi team believes
the car is repairable before Monday's twin races. Another driver in
trouble was Nissan's Gary Ayles, who crashed heavily at the
Thruxton chicane. He too was unhurt.
Jo Winkelhock was quickest for BMW in qualifying for round six,
with Renault's Alain Menu second quickest in both sessions.
Official qualifying: Round 5
1 Frank Biela (Ger), Audi A4, 1m 16.676s, 110.61mph /
178.01kmh;
2 Alain Menu (Switz), Renault Laguna, 1m 16.996s;
3 Jo Winkelhock (Ger), BMW 320i, 1m 17.099s;
4 John Bintcliffe (GB), Audi A4, 1m 17.703s;
5 David Leslie (GB), Honda Accord, 1m 17.783s;
6 Roberto Ravaglia (It), BMW 320i, 1m 17.921s;
7 John Cleland (GB), Vauxhall Vectra, 1m 17.922s;
8 Will Hoy (GB), Renault Laguna, 1m 17.947s;
9 Rickard Rydell (Swe), Volvo 850, 1m 17.977s;
10 Kelvin Burt (GB), Volvo 850, 1m 18.111s.
Official qualifying: Round 6
1 Winkelhock, 1m 16.820s, 110.40mph / 177.681kmh
2 Menu, 1m 17.077s;
3 Ravaglia, 1m 17.161s;
4 Burt, 1m 17.290s;
5 Hoy, 1m 17.342s;
6 Rydell, 1m 17.561s;
7 Leslie, 1m 17.617s;
8 Cleland, 1m 17.678s;
9 Tim Harvey (GB), Peugeot 406, 1m 17.807s;
10 Bintcliffe, 1m 17.888s.
- --
Official BTCC website:
Best in British Motor Sport
http://www.demon.co.uk/racing
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 15:21:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A4Q wins SATCC race at Kyalami...
AUDI BACK ON TOP IN SOUTH AFRICA
KYALAMI, ZA <Colin Windell>: Audi again took control of the AA
Fleetcare Super Touring Championship with Terry Moss taking his
Rothmans Audi A4 to victory in both races at Kyalami on Saturday while
team mate Chris Aberdein notched up third and second place points.
Grant McCleery put his Opel Vectra on pole for the first race - and
eight lap sprint - with Michael Briggs seventh fastest, just 0,3
seconds slower! However, Moss judged things right and blasted through
from the second row of the grid in Turn 2 (now the Pennzoil Curves) to
take the lead he was to hold to the finish. McCleery tucked in behind
him and ran the race in second place some 2,33 seconds behind the
leader with Aberdein third and just not able to catch and pass the
Opel.
Deon Joubert in the Motorplan BMW drove aggressively trying to catch
Aberdein but had to settle for fourth ahead of Craig Baird (BMW
Envirocar) and Shaun van der Linde (BMW Envirocar). Briggs ran sixth
in the Opel Vectra until lap five when he locked his brakes in WesBank
Corner and slid off the circuit.
In the second race, a 16-lapper, Moss was taken by surprise as Van der
Linde's BMW blasted through into the lead. In the first race Van der
Linde experimented with a longer first gear but went back to the
standard setup for the second race. It worked, and he led the opening
laps, driving close to the limit while trying to conserve his tyres.
With 10 laps to go the BMW was sliding wildly and both Moss and
Aberdein were able to get past.
Van der Linde held on for third place ahead of Michael Briggs, Grant
McCleery and Deon Joubert with Julian Bailey in the Minolta Toyota
Camry in seventh spot.
AA FLEETCARE SOUTH AFRICA SUPER TOURING
CHAMPIONSHIP, ROUNDS 5 & 6, KYALAMI (ZA),
1X8 LAPS + 1X16 LAPS - 102,24 km, MAY 04,
Race 1: 1, Terry Moss (Audi A4 quattro), 14m16,10s, 145 km/h; 2, Grant
McCleery (Opel Vectra), 14m18,44s; 3, Chris Aberdein (Audi A4
quattro), 14m18,92s; 4, Deon Joubert (BMW 318i), 14m21,08s; 5, Craig
Baird (BMW 318i), 14m26,81s; 6, Shaun van der Linde (BMW 318i),
14m27,10s; 7, Giniel de Villiers (Nissan Sentra), 14m27,24s; 8, Julian
Bailey (Toyota Camry), 14m27,57s; 9, Anthony Taylor (Toyota Camry),
14m32,44s; 10, Duncan Vos (Nissan Sentra), 14m33,03s.
Race 2: 1, Terry Moss (Audi A4 quattro), 28m35,43s, 145 km/h; 2, Chris
Aberdein (Audi A4 quattro), 28m35,70s; 3, Shaun van der Linde (BMW
318i), 28m44,57s; 4, Michael Briggs (Opel Vectra), 28m45,57s; 5, Grant
McCleery (Opel Vectra), 28m53,77s; 6, Deon Joubert (BMW 318i),
28m55,33s; 7, Julian Bailey (Toyota Camry), 29m00,20s; 8, Hennie
Groenewald (Audi 80 quattro), 29m07,59s; 9, Giniel de Villiers (Nissan
Sentra), 29m07,60s; 10, Duncan Vos (Nissan Sentra), 29m 08,08s.
Championship Positions (after 6 rounds): 1, Moss 30 points; 2,
Aberdein 28; 3, Briggs 23; 4, McCleery 19; 5, Van der Linde 16; 6,
Joubert/Baird/Vos 7.
Manufacturers Points: 1, BMW 66; 2, Audi/Opel 54; 4, Toyota 51; 5,
Nissan 26.
------------------------------
From: ScharfR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 17:49:41 -0400
Subject: Audi Cleans Up in First STW Race
In the opening race of the season in the German Super Touring Car series for
2.0 L production-based sedans, Audi dominated the competition with its A4
quattros.
In front of 32,000 spectators at the Zolder track in Belgium this afternoon,
Audi took all six top spots in the sprint race and the top three in the
second race. Conditions were cool and cloudy but the track was dry. Audi's
presumptive number 1 driver, Emanuele Pirro, won both events, set fastest
time in training and had the fastest lap in the race.
Race 1
Place Driver Car Time
1) Emanuele Pirro Audi A4 quattro 22.39.026
2) Philipp Peter Audi A4 quattro 22.40.256
3) Tamara Vidali Audi A4 quattro 22.42.362
4) Cristial Abt Audi A4 quattro 22.44.663
5) Karl Wendlinger Audi A4 quattro 22.46.967
6) Kris Nissen Audi A4 quattro 22.47.549
Race 2
Place Driver Car Time
1) Emanuele Pirro Audi A4 quattro 42.12.701
2) Tamara Vidali Audi A4 quattro 42.13.970
3) Kris Nissen Audi A4 quattro 42.19.711
4) Steve Soper BMW 320i 42.25.008
5) Klaus Niedzwiedz Honda Accord 42.44.882
6) Armin Hahne Honda Accord 42.48.730
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V3 #433
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