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quattro-digest Monday, 6 May 1996 Volume 03 : Number 436
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
cost of selling a4 in the US
Undeliverable Message
Turbo Problem???5KCSTQ
RE: Late night door locks
RE: rear caliper won't come off disk
Struts on 86 VW Quattro
RE: rear caliper won't come off disk
question for you S4 owners out there
Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
Cold engine or faulty temp gauge?
A good mechanic in Chicago
Re: Intermittant speedometer
q -Listers in Frankfurt
Re: Cold engine or faulty temp gauge?
Cleaning 5k/200 headliners....
Re: A4Q/radio
Re: Struts on 86 VW Quattro
200 TQ Seats
Re: QClub hara-kiri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eliot Lim <eliot@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 17:42:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cost of selling a4 in the US
On Sun, 5 May 1996 ScharfR@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 96-05-03 16:59:02 EDT, eliot@u.washington.edu (Eliot Lim)
> writes:
>
> >seeing that a4s are starting to sell really well, that would mean that
> >their unit cost will be dropping (because the fixed certification
> >costs are divided over each unit sold) which would mean that they can
> >price it more competitively without hurting themselves too much.
>
> This would be true if there was any unused/unsold production capacity. As I
> read it in the Greman press, Ingolstadt is operating above its rated capacity
> throught the use of overtime. The unfortunate implication is that no
> volume-based price decrease is likely.
that's a completely different variable. the cost of building each unit in
germany is unrelated to the cost of certifying the model for sale in the US.
the cost of crash testing the A4 is divided over the number of units sold.
the more a4s sold in the US, the lower the certification cost per a4. this
is quite a crucial number for the american importers because US certification
is quite expensive. a german made golf VR6 would have to be sold at $26K
to break even given the certification costs and anticipated sales volume.
> It's also worth remembering that the current U.S. volume is still only a tiny
> fraction of world wide Audi volume. Last year AoA sold a bit over 18,000
> cars. Audi's total volume was around 450,000. So again, even a doubling of
> U.S. sales isn't likely to lead to any significant economies of scale.
which would support the notion that increased sales in the US would mean
lower unit cost, since doubling US imports wouldn't amount to much in
terms of production cost, while halving the certification cost per car
sold in the US.
i'm not making any of this up. this was stuff that the west coast vw rep
told me.
now, the dealer also claims that audis are "subsidised" for the US
market.. i.e. cars sold here are sold at a loss to the maker. i
don't have reason to doubt that claim since prices in other countries
are quite a bit more than in the US. but i maintain that increased
US sales are a positive development in terms of the bottom line.
eliot
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 5 May 96 18:20:20 PDT
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From: nicosisj@ldcl1.dnet.dupont.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 96 22:02:37 EDT
Subject: Turbo Problem???5KCSTQ
To change the air filter on my 5KCSTQ, I took the metal tube from the turbo to
the fuel distributor off and noticed that there was oil in the tube. Is this
normal or do I have a seal problem in the turbo? The car runs fine and the
boost is normal at 1.3 to 1.4 max. I notice on startup I have a cloud of blue
smoke at the rear but I thought I had bad valve seals. Could this be the first
sign that the turbo is dying?... The car has 103,000 miles on it.
Some advice would be appreciated....TIA
Sal Nicosia
5KCSTQ
------------------------------
From: "Tracy, Peter" <pgt@novelmail.ekbos.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 96 22:30:00 EDT
Subject: RE: Late night door locks
On Saturday, May 04, 1996 2:57 PM, quattro-owner wrote:
>>
>> From: Brooks Ellis <brooks@fortnet.org>
>> Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 10:18:19 -0600
>> Subject: Late night door locks
>>
>> Well, it's either late at night, or early in the morning; all
depending on
>> how you look at it. Anyway, I have had a question/problem that I have
been
>> meaning to get some input on, but have just been busy, and forgotten
about
>> it. ( so here we go ) [ oh, it's a 1990 100 Quattro ]
>>
>> About a week or week and a half ago, by drivers side
key-lock/unlock
>> device has stopped functioning. Meaning - the door will lock if you
press
>> down on the internal lock-post; and will unlock if you pull up on it.
When
>> you try to use the key to lock/unlock, the whole cylendar will just
spin
>> around; and nothing will really happen...no lock, no unlock...:( just
my
>> blood pressure rising.
>> The door will also lock and unlock if you use the key in the
>> passenger side keyhole-lock-mechanism-thang. It seems that I have
heard of
>> this happening to some degree of regularity to owners of that general
style
>> automobile. I looked at another Audi a while ago ( a '90 V8 Q) that
had the
>> same problem. The guy who was trying to sell it to me said that there
is a
>> little piece of plastic in the door lock mechanism that connects to
the
>> keyhole; or something to that effect. He said that his shop quoted him
about
>> $100 to fix it.
>>
>> So - _IS_ this a common mode of failure on this style car?
What can
>> I do about it ( besides locking and unlocking my car from the
passenger side
>> everytime )? Would this be a simple saturday mechanic in the garage
type of
>> repair - or would it really be better to take the car to a shop
experienced
>> in such matters?
I wouldn't be surprised if this is fairly common. It happened on both my
1990 200 Turbo and my 1990 90Q2V. It cost me about $100 per car to repair
it at the dealer. I took the door on my 200 apart to see what was wrong
and if I could fix it. It turns out that it is *extremely* difficult to
get to the portion of the door in which the lock is located and that is
why I elected to let them do it.
------------------------------
From: "Tracy, Peter" <pgt@novelmail.ekbos.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 96 22:31:00 EDT
Subject: RE: rear caliper won't come off disk
On Saturday, May 04, 1996 2:57 PM, quattro-owner wrote:
>> From: RELAYER@aol.com
>> Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 13:44:53 -0400
>> Subject: rear caliper won't come off disk
>>
>> Hey fellow Q men,
>>
>> I've having trouble with my Coupe Q's rear brake pad replacement.
>> I cant get the caliper and pads off of the disk once I've undone the 2
allen
>> screws that hold the caliper to the hub. I've got a small lip on the
outer
>> edge of my disk and can't slide the pads off past it......and there's
no
>> place to use a C clamp to expand it. Let me know if anyone has any
ideas or
>> solutions to get the caliper and pads off the disk....
>> Thanks
>>
>> Christian Long
>> 1990 90
>> 1990 Coupe Q
>>
Perhaps you can stick a screw driver between the pads and caliper and use
it to pry the caliper piston into caliper by pushing on the pads.
------------------------------
From: Antilles Engineering <antilles@madriver.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 22:45:51 -0400
Subject: Struts on 86 VW Quattro
Dear Q-Listers--
My number 2 *grunt* bucket is an 88 VW Quantum Syncro Wagon. (The Pristine
Beauty is a 1990 200 QTS which only comes out when the sun shines).
Zeeee problemo is that I had the VW's front struts replaced recently (by a
Vt mechanic who is a nice guy but is definitely better qualified at milking
cows than fixin' Quattros.). After paying the bill, I immediately
experienced rude noises coming from the front end. Sounded like Barney was
flogging his tail againt the underbelly when ever I went over a frost heave
(which we have aplenty in VT this time of year.)
I pulled the plastic caps off the top of the struts in the engine
compartment and discovered that the shafts of the struts had *only* nuts
securing them where the shafts came up through the holes in the sheet metel,
and unlike the Pristine Beautry, has a plastic washer and a domed metal
plate beneath the nut (presumedly to distribute the pounding that the strut
induces), there weren't nuttin except the shaft slopping up and down
(here-abouts half an inch of play or closer still, 'bout the width of a
cow's tit) with only the nut to keep it from falling out of the hole in the
sheet metal.)
Me thinks that the Prinstine Beauty's setup is probably pretty much the same
as the VW's should be--i.e., a plastic washer, topped by a domed metal
plate, secured by an aircraft-like nut (the type with the plastic insert).
I also presume that there should be a similar arrangement underneath the
body panel to distribute the strain in like manner given the push-pull
nature of struts (we use to call them "shocks.")
Is this essentially the arrangement? And if so, what caliber of hoss pistol
do I use on this mechanic egg-sucker? (Yes--we still have the right to bear
arms. **Big** ones. Eat your heart out, MA/NYand CT/-Q-owners.)
Or am I all wet with cow do-do re my perverse technical analysis?
Intemperate but accuracte comments welcomed (particularly if you are
quoting Bentley chapter and verse), which I will share with my VT cow
keeper-cum-mechanic.
Doug Terman
Antilles Engineering, Ltd.
snail: PO Box 318, VT 05674
voice: (802) 496 3812
fax: (802) 496 3814
------------------------------
From: "Richard J Andrews ,JR." <rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:48:42 +0000
Subject: RE: rear caliper won't come off disk
>
> On Saturday, May 04, 1996 2:57 PM, quattro-owner wrote:
>
> >> From: RELAYER@aol.com
> >> Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 13:44:53 -0400
> >> Subject: rear caliper won't come off disk
> >>
> >> Hey fellow Q men,
> >>
> >> I've having trouble with my Coupe Q's rear brake pad
> >> replacement.
> >> I cant get the caliper and pads off of the disk once I've undone
> >> the 2
> allen
> >> screws that hold the caliper to the hub. I've got a small lip on
> >> the
> outer
> >> edge of my disk and can't slide the pads off past it......and
> >> there's
> no
> >> place to use a C clamp to expand it. Let me know if anyone has
> >> any
> ideas or
> >> solutions to get the caliper and pads off the disk....
> >> Thanks
Often times I have this problem,
I hit the caliper with a mallet/hammer until it slides the pads and
the caliper offf.
Hope this helps,
R
- -Rich Andrews
rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu
83 5000t
84 Coupe GT
84 5000S
85 5000S
86 5000S
88 90
90 200T
------------------------------
From: Carl DeSousa <desousa@cisco.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 96 20:42:40 PDT
Subject: question for you S4 owners out there
A friend has an S4 that he is upgrading the ECU on.
Question is, how do we get to it and where is it?
thanks,
Carl
desousa@cisco.com
------------------------------
From: "Richard J Andrews ,JR." <rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:57:55 +0000
Subject: Re: FYI: 5KCSTQ Exhaust system
> On Sun, 5 May 1996, Ted Blank wrote:
>
> > Ed-
> > I think Milt is onto something. Last year I had to replace a
> > perforated
>
> I think the following just proves that Milt is on drugs.
>
> > $$$. The new 2 piece manifold was also too $$$. I found a good
> > straight used part that fit right but the throat was slightly
> > different. It went on and works fine, but now I have to carefully
> > feather the throttle because I run to 1.5 boost without even
> > trying. The fuel pump shut off at that point makes for a jerky
> > ride.
>
> Seems like you got lucky and found something that really works.
> What car did it come off of? I want one too.
I would also Like to know what type of caer this came off of, I am
looking for abetter manifold
Later,
- -Rich Andrews
rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu
83 5000t
84 Coupe GT
84 5000S
85 5000S
86 5000S
88 90
90 200T
------------------------------
From: Mike <mac50@columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:04:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cold engine or faulty temp gauge?
Just got back from a long trip in the ol' 89 100 and was disturbed midway
in the 5 hr trip when I noticed that my water temp gauge apparently
stopped working. It read below the lowest mark on the "cold" side. Oil
temp remained very close to 80C throughout (as it always does). The trip
ended and I parked the car and turned it off. Then, before getting out of
the car we noticed it was a no parking zone, so I fired her up to move
and--presto!--the gauge now registers about 1/4 to 2/3 of the max.
So:
1. Anyone ever have thisproblem?
2. What's it cost to fix?
And BTW, thanks to everyone for your previous answers!
Mike
------------------------------
From: Andy Pruitt <rapruitt@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 23:15:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: A good mechanic in Chicago
I'm looking very seriously at a '93 90 CS, but a little concerned about
suspension and some other stuff and want it inspected by a mechanic.
Does anybody know a good mechanic in Chicago, or better yet on the
southwest side of town, like in Hinsdale / Downer's Grove / Wheaton?
Could it be a conflict of interest to have another dealer look at it?
thanks,
Andy Pruitt
(93 90 CS?)
------------------------------
From: Escoses@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:41:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Intermittant speedometer
I had the same thing happen on my 90Q. The problem lasted for perhaps about
1,000 miles and then the speedo just died. Took it off, kicked it around,
etc. In the end had to get a new one. Fortunately the car was still under
warranty and got no hassle at all, Audi replaced it right away. Never did see
the price but it must have been steep.
Graham
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey B. Cadman" <jcadman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 22:59:01 -0500
Subject: q -Listers in Frankfurt
Hello fellow Audi enthusiasts-
I know this is a 'global' list and since Audis are German cars, I hope
there are at least a few of you somewhere in Germany, preferably in the
Frankfurt area. I will be in Frankfurt from May 25-June 7 and would
like suggestions on things to see or do and possibly get together with
some of you to discuss Audis from both sides of the pond.
If anyone responds to this, I will be signing off of the list on Thurs.,
May 9 as I will be leaving the country. So if you read the digest (like
I do) and you've read this after I have signed off, please try mailing
to: cadmanjb@orkwpoa.us-state.gov
Hope to hear from you soon, Tschuus,
Jeff Cadman
Alexandria, VA
'85 5kcstq
------------------------------
From: Escoses@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 01:28:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Cold engine or faulty temp gauge?
Neither, my guess is that your thermostat is not working properly. Once the
engine is hot it gets stuck at full open thereby not regulating the flow and
the temp as indicated by the gauge drops. You might want to take it out and
check it.
Good luck
Graham
------------------------------
From: AUDIDUDI@delphi.com
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 01:52:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cleaning 5k/200 headliners....
Does anyone have any recommendations for cleaning the headliner material on
the 5k/100/200s? The previous owner of my car was a smoker and I've gotten
the smell out of everything but the headliner, which I plan to tackle next.
Thanks!
_ _
/ l l o l \ l o Jeffrey Goggin
/__l l l / l l l l l l / l l * * * * * * *
/ l l_l \_l l l__/ l_l \_l l AudiDudi@delphi.com
------------------------------
From: "Richard J Andrews ,JR." <rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:32:41 +0000
Subject: Re: A4Q/radio
>
> Mel,
>
> I also have an A4Q. Radio sound is fine. CD and tape sound is
> better, as expected. Radio RECEPTION RANGE is poor, I lose stations
Try an anatannae amplifier, I had one of these added to my 5KS, whew,
you could pick up radio stations in stereo while the radio was still
set to local.
Hope this Helps,
- -Rich Andrews
rjandrew@post.cis.smu.edu
83 5000t
84 Coupe GT
84 5000S
85 5000S
86 5000S
88 90
90 200T
------------------------------
From: Jeremy R King <kingjer@eng.auburn.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 03:06:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Struts on 86 VW Quattro
I've personally replaced the struts on my Quantum and there's definitely
supposed to be the gold-colored cupped metal piece under the strut nut.
The plastic washer around this piece is just to keep from having metal to
metal contact (read noise) if your car ever leaves the ground. I've also
had the entire front suspension off my car several times. The underside
of the strut tower should have a strut bearing to take the brunt of the
weight of the car on the strut.
If you want the harder data, I shall supply info from the Quantum Bentley
From the top of the strut should be:
Sleeve
Bump Stop
Upper spring retainer
Strut bearing
Slotted nut
Threaded cap
Strut tower on car
Gold dish thingie (not mentioned, but pictured)
Strut nut
Sounds to me like Farmer Joe had no clue what he was doing. Good luck
straightening this one out. I wouldn't do a whole lot of driving like it
is.
Jeremy R. King
'86 VW Quantum GL5
Auburn University, Alabama, USA
On Sun, 5 May 1996, Antilles Engineering wrote:
> Dear Q-Listers--
>
> My number 2 *grunt* bucket is an 88 VW Quantum Syncro Wagon. (The Pristine
> Beauty is a 1990 200 QTS which only comes out when the sun shines).
>
> Zeeee problemo is that I had the VW's front struts replaced recently (by a
> Vt mechanic who is a nice guy but is definitely better qualified at milking
> cows than fixin' Quattros.). After paying the bill, I immediately
> experienced rude noises coming from the front end. Sounded like Barney was
> flogging his tail againt the underbelly when ever I went over a frost heave
> (which we have aplenty in VT this time of year.)
>
> I pulled the plastic caps off the top of the struts in the engine
> compartment and discovered that the shafts of the struts had *only* nuts
> securing them where the shafts came up through the holes in the sheet metel,
> and unlike the Pristine Beautry, has a plastic washer and a domed metal
> plate beneath the nut (presumedly to distribute the pounding that the strut
> induces), there weren't nuttin except the shaft slopping up and down
> (here-abouts half an inch of play or closer still, 'bout the width of a
> cow's tit) with only the nut to keep it from falling out of the hole in the
> sheet metal.)
>
> Me thinks that the Prinstine Beauty's setup is probably pretty much the same
> as the VW's should be--i.e., a plastic washer, topped by a domed metal
> plate, secured by an aircraft-like nut (the type with the plastic insert).
> I also presume that there should be a similar arrangement underneath the
> body panel to distribute the strain in like manner given the push-pull
> nature of struts (we use to call them "shocks.")
>
> Is this essentially the arrangement? And if so, what caliber of hoss pistol
> do I use on this mechanic egg-sucker? (Yes--we still have the right to bear
> arms. **Big** ones. Eat your heart out, MA/NYand CT/-Q-owners.)
>
> Or am I all wet with cow do-do re my perverse technical analysis?
> Intemperate but accuracte comments welcomed (particularly if you are
> quoting Bentley chapter and verse), which I will share with my VT cow
> keeper-cum-mechanic.
> Doug Terman
> Antilles Engineering, Ltd.
> snail: PO Box 318, VT 05674
> voice: (802) 496 3812
> fax: (802) 496 3814
>
------------------------------
From: "Paul C. Waterloo" <74543.407@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 06 May 96 08:33:13 EDT
Subject: 200 TQ Seats
I'm still looking for my perfect 91 200 TQ (have one in sight), I would love to
find one with the sport seats.
I am a member of the BMW CCA and was looking through the parts for sale section
of the magazine (Roundel) and saw that a couple people are selling leather
seats. Two of them were from older M3's. These are black seats (I think they are
very similiar to S4 seats).
Does anyone know if you could take these seats and back fit them to a 200 TQ?
Anyone done it before?
TIA
Paul Waterloo
Colchester, CT
87 5KSQ
------------------------------
From: smarinel@neosoft.com (Steve Marinello@Newpark)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:41:43 -0500
Subject: Re: QClub hara-kiri
>>watching from the sidelines as an impartial observer, i am shocked at how
>>oblivious the QC people are to the damage their reputation is sustaining
>>with each passing day.
>>
>>it is looking really bad now, probably beyond repair. i think you guys
>>might as well start a new club because even if you get to the bottom of
>>this, i doubt if the reputation can ever be fully restored.
>>
>>if i were a member, it would be a personal embarassment because in general
>>i don't sink money into black holes.
>>
>>
>>eliot
>
>Well, it's sounding like it's into a rampaging forest fire, but I think the
>flames have been unduly flamed. I'm not happy about what I'm seeing on the
>list, but I'm not going to suggest that QCUSA or any of us divorce our
>entrails at this time. Not that I'm usually the coolest in the room, but I
>would suggest a week of moderation and cooling off. Let's wait a bit for
>that answer, and then if it's not satisfactory, as Dan implied, we can deal
>with that then.
>
After some of the personal responses and info that I've gotten, I'll spend
some serious time rethinking that position, particularly if there isn't a
complete response from QCUSA by this Friday.
Stephen A. Marinello, Ph.D.
Corporate Technical Services
Newpark Resources, Inc.
P.O. Box 6411 - Metairie, LA 70009
504/838-8222 FAX 504/833-9506
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V3 #436
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