Re: Road Skill

[PDQSHIP@aol.com]

In a message dated 96-09-18 01:23:50 EDT, you write:

<< wow, what a debate..  i think the reason why there's such a big argument
 is that there are way too many variables involved:
 
 - how much more exactly does an M3 cost over an A4Q? $8K? $10K?
10k almost to the dollar (forgetting the luxo pak on the M3)

 
 - what can you do to an A4Q with say, $8K?  you're not going to get
 M3 levels of power unless you add twin turbos.  who makes twin turbo
 kits for the A4Q?  nobody that i know of.
Other than the factory, you are right....  And I doubt the factory will do
it, cuz the M3 is only in need of more power, a relatively cheap proposition
looking at the current A4q handicap now..
 
 - to address the wet or snowy road argument, consider the fact that
 (as dave eaton said) driver skill is probably going to be the
 determining factor here .  so what levels of driver skill are we
 talking about here?  tommi makkinen in any rwd car will blow most of
 us away in the most powerful quattro.  this is completely random, isn't
 it?  quattros are definitely easier to drive fast under slippery
 conditions than a powerful rwd, i don't think anyone would argue with
 that.
>>>>  Hmmm....  What is the weight distribution on the cars eliot, that may
help you here...  a balanced rear wheel drive car with limited slip (hello
M3) takes a huge performance advantage over anything BUT a balanced AWD car
(and the A4 is not)....  I would argue too that one's foot stays buried in a
balance rear wheel drive car with MONSTER brakes than a q with substandard
binders, absolutely no q advantage there, it all goes to the M3...  Racing
allows some of the above to be addressed, and the q's put the massive hp to
the ground better no doubt, but in street form, from the factory these
animals are what they are, and the advantages as I see them are very narrow
to the q, and only becuz of the q, and it ain't the rain (surprised me too)
 
 - if we want to pin down some variables to arrive at a more meaningful
 conclusion, i might suggest that we look at the motorsports arena.
 how about the various touring cars series where A4Qs go head to head
 with 320i's.  i don't think there's much difference in power output,
 but the audis have to be hadicapped with extra weight to make everyone
 else competitive.  we can also assume that the difference in driver
 skill is much narrower than joe blow and billy bob.
>>>>  Again, racing rule allow some serious mods to the A4Q, not something
that they are doing in a production car or are going to do....  ck out the
wheel and tire config on the A4's that race eliot, hardly an argument
anywhere but the track....
 
 the results pretty much speak for themselves.  the a4Q is inherently
 better chassis wise than a 3 series bimmer.  a 3 series bimmer without
 a power advantage or weight handicap will lose to an a4q everytime
 given the same level of driver skill.  when you compare apples to
 oranges (such as M3 vs a4q on dry/wet/snow) an infinite number of
 "conclusions" can be arrived at and the arguments will be endless and
 futile.  everyone is right and everyone is wrong!
  >>>>>  Hmmmm....  Theoretical engineering the A4 has over the 3 series no
doubt, execution of the package comes up way short....  And practical
engineering is where the M3 just plain shines, as much as the 951 (HP/chassis
tight/brakes/50-50wt/limited slip = less unfair advantage)....  Do your
homework and you don't have to reinvent the wheel....  Reinvent the wheel, no
money left for the package....  Audi learned that the hard way....  The A4 is
just an awesome car wanting for  the rest of the package to make it right....
 Unfortunately, the price of the A4q is what is selling it now (and I won''t
sell it short it is a great car, but no M3), so no one should hold their
breath for the TTv6 version....  When/if it comes, betcha the M3 will be the
price advantage of the two, too many toys have to come with that A4 to make a
better M3 with q....  Take and M3, put some serious winter rubber on it, and
the q advantage is good but not great, esp given the limited slip of the
M.....

Scott