Re: Road rash cf

[PDQSHIP@aol.com]

In a message dated 96-11-12 15:35:08 EST, you write:

<< Thanks Scott...  that seems appropriate for Rally driving... and the
Sprongl 
 brothers + the mods that are required to control the car's drive train at 
 those speeds....
>>>>  No mods necessary with the Gen I non torsen lockable diffs....  You can
easily modify the torsen with the rear lock to be able to engage the rear
only at any speed....  However for skid control the torsen doesn't act in
your favour for the center diff....  HP in the equation makes a real
difference in q handling.....   I come from a FWD ProRally (81 scirocco X
4yrs) background, and find that the application of power on all q's is
necessary for control, I tend to disagree with your taught trans in neutral
and steer, esp on q's, but to me all folks should have lessons in passing the
road cf......  And the torsen acts EXACTLY like my fwd did, except there was
no lift throttle oversteer in the torsen....
 
>>>>>>
 I attended a Skid Control school where they taught controlling  cars when a 
 spin/skid starts.   For most cars, they dictate putting the tranny in 
 neutral and appropriate steering.
>>>>  Not sure when you did that, but the steamboat school starts to teach
you about skid control, but hard to do in a 1 or 2 day class for all but the
most advanced of drivers....   At no time, however, did they teach the
neutral thing....  Putting a trans in neutral while bearing down on an
oncoming semi, seems like some hi level and rather risky thinkin....  Sure
wouldn't want to miss and hit reverse, or have no control when you might see
your window of opportunity 
>>>>>
  Later, while doing the parking lot thing, 
 I found that the my 100Q didn't respond at all like a FWD, and neutral did 
 nothing.  Perhaps it's the larger amount of rolling resistance this car's 
 rear end provides compared to a FWD.  Once the car started sliding sideways,

 no amount of steering input would get it back!  But with a gentle 
 application of throttle + steering, yes it would come back.   Now I find the

 car handles turns much better with throttle applied, than not.
 >>>>>  I would advise that you have conditions of great control, by that I
mean, you don't have the weight shift that a power skid will apply.....   I
found (albeit the longest skid of my life) driving a friends 80q with torsen
(70mph snow covered county road), that once you reach 90 degrees to line of
travel, bringing a q back with a torsen takes a LONG time, so long in fact
that I was contemplating letting the car go and catching it on the 360....
  I applied the throttle hard, and the nose came around slowly, and finally
caught it....  Later, I have since played with both torsen cars and non
torsen cars, and found that the torsens act more like a front driver even as
hp increases, whereas a non torsen acts more rear wheel in it's
characteristics....  This has more to do with the center locking  than the
rear....  If I had a torsen car, I would be into figgrn how to mod that rear
diff to lock anytime....  locking diffs make for massive understeer, (which
by definition means you have to be in a power skid or NOTHING happens) unless
you can power out with the rears locked.....  When I play in northern MI (my
best John Buffum act) with my q, I tend to leave the diffs open, then apply
rear shooting out of the turn....  With a hi hp q, the control is very rear
driver.....   Unfortunately with the torsen you don't have the choice, so you
live with the front driver understeer all the time....  What to do?  Me, I
would look hard on how to get some lift throttle oversteer into my torsen
car, then have the rear diff lockable anytime.....   Most torsen q's don't
have lift throttle oversteer, which would really offset the tosens'
propensity to lock at the most inappropriate time....  Again, this is real
life hiway driving, not workin out in a parking lot.....  try a dirt or snowy
road in the boonies, with speed and a roving COG based on suspension
compression on/off throttle, that is what happens when you are driving at
speeds, the parking lot thing just isn't a true to life experience.....
 Better yet, go to steamboat, that was as close to a closed rally course as
I've seen in years....  And real life speeds and handling of your q....

Drove at the track last weekend in the "new" stock 5ktq, in MI, 12 inches of
snow, those same pesky ole P210's....  Verdict, that steamboat post is still
pretty accurate, even at seal level, and with stock power.....

Scott