Re: Sad but true, TQC < TQ

[Dave Eaton <dave.eaton@minedu.govt.nz>]

and interesting aside to this thread along with another recent one which
discussed the ur-q's inferior rear suspension design (being essentially
mcpherson struts with lower wishbones)...

i see that ford in it's update to the escort cossie to turn it from '96 group
a to '97 'world rally car' (ie to the new fia rally regulations) has modified
the rear suspension of carlos sainz's new car to be....

mcpherson struts with lower wishbones.

go figure.

-dave
'93 s2
'90 ur-q


..>From: "richard funnell" <richard_funnell@NGC.COM>
..>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 08:51:00 PST
..>
..>     John,
..>     
..>     It sounds as if you may have proven that a very hard suspension (urQ) 
..>     isn't as well suited to the real world as a more stock suspension 
..>     (5KT).  You have modified the car which was likely set up stiffer in 
..>     the first place, and made fewer changes to the family car.  Bad 
..>     comparison.
..>     
..>     On a flat track, stiffer springs coupled with rock-hard Konis (set to 
..>     max hard you say) and larger (read heavier) tires will be great 
..>     because it keeps the car flat and responsive.  On a real road, 
..>     however, every item listed will reduce the compliance of the 
..>     suspension which reduces traction on rough surfaces.  It's a relative 
..>     thing, but your comment that the urQ is flatter but drifts too much 
..>     sure points that way for me.
..>     
..>     I'll admit I'm biased, owning an urQ, but frankly I didn't buy it to 
..>     race it and the incredible speed, stability and confidence the car 
..>     offers under all conditions suits me just fine. 
..>     
..>     Richard Funnell
..>     
..>     ================
..>     
..>     Sad but true, TQC < TQ
..>     
..>     Well, guys, the jury is in, at least for me.  As you might know, we own an
..>     '82 urq, a '87 5000CS TQW, and a '90 V8 Quattro.  Ever since we got 
..>     our tq wagon and upped the boost, I've wondered if it was faster and handled 
..>     better than my beloved urq.  To be brief, it is and does.  It's sad to say, 
..>     but the 5ktq is the hands down winner.
..>     
..>     My urq is very modified with ABT stage 3 computer, 2+ bar of boost, Eibach
..>     performance springs (NOT the lowering springs), Koni's set to full hard, and
..>     ferrodo street/track brake pads.  It has a new K26 turbo, manifold,  and head
..>     (yes, new head) with Schrick cam.  The cat is replaced with a straight pipe,
..>     and the exhaust is unrestrictive.  I have cloth seats and a 4 point harness.
..>     Broken in Sumitomo 225/45/16 on BBS light 3 piece wheels are under it.  It
..>     SHOULD kick the mostly stock 5ktq's butt.  It does not.
..>     
..>     The 5ktq has new Boge turbo gas front struts, 1.7 bar of boost with a urq
..>     wastegate spring, and Dunlop D60 A2 tires on the front a one Uniroyal and
..>     one Goodyear VR rated tires on the back.  These are on the stock 15x6 alloy
..>     wheels.  The 5ktq has new slag masters on the front.  Both have about the
..>     same mileage.
..>     
..>     I have to say, the urq FEELS faster, but on the very challenging mountain
..>     roads to our house, it is much slower when timed.  It also doesn't stop as
..>     quickly, so I couldn't go that deep into the turns.  The urq was 
..>     flatter in the turns (probably because it is lower), but it drifts a lot more 
..>     than the tq.
..>     
..>     I am very disappointed.  All I could think about was how I would trade this
..>     car in a minute for an S4, 5-speed V8, '90 200 wagon or '91 200 (yes I know
..>     the '91 is a 20v).  Unless I do an engine upgrade to the newer 10v or 20v
..>     and replace the antiquated fuel injection computer, I don't think this car
..>     is going to get any quicker.  An even if I did, the handling is the  best
..>     it's going to get.  I can solve the stopping problem by installing the dual
..>     piston calipers I have sitting in my garage, though.  And I resigned to
..>     definitely do that now before the track days start up again.
..>     
..>     Sorry to start this argument up again guys, but I though you might want to
..>     know.  BTW, the 5ktq is much quicker than the V8.  I think the V8's steering
..>     is too "vague"; obviously they were going for luxury here.
..>     
..>     I think I'll sell the urq and buy a high mileage 5ktq for a couple of grand
..>     and turn IT into a full time track car.
..>     Regards,
..>     
..>     John Karasaki
..>     
..>     Quattro Club (regional & national) member