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quattro-digest Wednesday, 8 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 033
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Re: Bentley Manual -83 UR-Q
RFI: Hella Driving Lights for 5K
Re: BMW translations
Re: Yahoo!
Cheap filters....
curses
Re: What is this by the gas tank? '85 GT
Re: Ignition wires
Re: boost & filters
Re: 20v Oil Filter?
Re: BIG VALVES -Reply
Re: Free O-rings
Re: Yahoo!
Re: '89 80 - miss and idle instability problem
Leasing a new Audi A4 - AudiDoDat?
V8 Rear Window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ti@bazooka.amb.org (Ti Kan)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Bentley Manual -83 UR-Q
RDG51@aol.com writes:
> Is there a Bentley Manual for the 4000 series that begins before 1984? The
> only one I see in the catalog and that is available in my supply store is the
> 84-87 model yrs, which includes all the 4000 and coupe GT models. If there
> is an earlier edition, what number is it? Thanks-----Rob Greene
There is a Bentley manual for the 1980-1983 Audi 4000 and Coupe but it
does not contain any information specific to Ur-quattros. If you're still
interested:
Audi 4000/Coupe Official Factory Repair Manual
1980, 1981, 1982, 1983 Gasoline, Diesel, and Turbo Diesel
ISBN 0-8376-0349-8
VW Part# LPV 800 422
Bentley stock# VA43
Hope this helps,
- -Ti
96 A4 2.8 quattro
84 5000S 2.1 Turbo
80 4000 2.0
- --
/// Ti Kan Vorsprung durch Technik
/// AMB Research Laboratories, Sunnyvale, CA. USA
/// Internet: ti@amb.org
////// UUCP: ...!uunet!bazooka!ti
/// URL: http://sunsite.unc.edu/~cddb/tikan/
------------------------------
From: "Paul F. Levine" <paulevi@psd.k12.co.us>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:33:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: RFI: Hella Driving Lights for 5K
Hi,
I'm in the dark about something - as I guess most 5k drivers are after
sunset. Anyway, I have a 1987 5KCSTQW and was thinking about adding some
driving lights so I cann go out after dark. I currently always use my
brights and they are just barely enough.
A friend who has the same car put on some Hella 5500 driving lights. He
loves them. I was wondering if you had any other thoughts, experiences or
suggestions. These cost about $130 locally for the pair and the kit.
Thanks and stay bright!
Paul Levine
Wisdom requires innocence.
Innocence requires letting go of all things...
------------------------------
From: "Lino M. Valadas" <valadasl@osha.igs.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:30:00 -0500
Subject: Re: BMW translations
> In New York City it stands for Break My Window!!
>
> Hasta,
>
>
Bust My Wallet
Lino
------------------------------
From: jstevens@kaiwan.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:47:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Yahoo!
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Meron wrote:
> >I haven't tried the 5k/XL combo in a wash. Why don't one of you?
> Hey "dirty" Neil,
> I have a set of 6' Pia round spot lights on my bumper and they are
> surviving the meanest, badest, car wash (I must add that they are mounted
> as a tri-pot set up).
Don't you guys hand wash your babies?
cya,
John
90q20v
jstevens@kawian.com Orange County, California
johnstevens@ucsd.edu Multimedia Development Center
La Jolla, California University of California at San Diego
_______________________________________________________________
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
-Dr. Dre
------------------------------
From: Andrew Buc <72220.443@compuserve.com>
Date: 08 Jan 97 00:50:57 EST
Subject: Cheap filters....
> Off the top of my head, differences include the following:
> a) Inside thread
> b) Outside diameter
> c) Total capacity (1/2 qt. vs. 1 qt. vs other)
> d) Anti-drainback valve, or not?
> e) Bypass valve, or not?
> f) Quality of filtration material.
> g) How well the filter gasket is supported.
Size of gasket, also. At least according to criteria a) and b), a Fram PH3387A
should be interchangeable with the more expensive PH2846B, which my Peugeot
504 takes. Some years ago a Peugeot Owners Club member wrote in the newsletter
that he'd gotten a leak w/the PH3387A. A couple of months ago I started
digging through the Fram catalog, and I found that the canisters for the two
filters were the same size, but the gaskets differed in diameter and
thickness. I threw the issue out on the Compu$erve Cars forum, and someone who
seemed to know what he was talking about thought that could well account for
the leak.
- --Andrew Buc, Seattle, WA; Internet: 72220.443@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: Bernie Strub <bstrub@silverlink.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:13:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: curses
Phil sed:
>There are occasions, albeit rare, when a quick bout of foaming apoplexy and
>a bloodcurdling threat or two are fully justified.
>
Bravo! I really appreciate a well worded, emotional statement. May I quote
this bit of word art?
>>>>>Bernie
87 4kcsq alpine white/light grey cloth
QCUSA #1765
Member #47 NW Region AQC
------------------------------
From: "Gary G. Erickson" <erickson@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:13:16 -0800
Subject: Re: What is this by the gas tank? '85 GT
Thanks to everyone who responded about the sediment filter. I'll pick a
new one up when I go after the copper washers that I should have
replaced on the mail fuel filter, but forgot to buy. Oh well . . .
First prize goes to |Dan| who was back with an answer even before I saw
my post be redistributed by Majordomo. One of the perks of being
listmeister, I suppose!
Gary
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Gary G. Erickson -- Member #82 NW Audi Quattro Club
Business Solution Integrators, Inc.
503-702-5789 -- erickson@teleport.com
------------------------------
From: e6941tb@gnn.com
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:24:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Ignition wires
tbrown@nosc.mil wrote:
>
> No, the wires don't go? No, you don't know? Or No, you have CRS from
> 1986? Which?
Well, when I don't know, I don't respond to a post.
You have guessed it right in the first attempt.
Igor Kessel
'89 200TQ
------------------------------
From: e6941tb@gnn.com
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:53:54 -0800
Subject: Re: boost & filters
KLeeds wrote:
>
> >
> > Igor Kessel
> > '89 200TQ
> > 18psi of boost (TAP)
>
> Igor-
> How long have you had the TAP mod? How did you decide on Ivor
> vs Ned or Hoppen?
For more than 2 years now. This red thing I am driving is fast! Had
cranked it up to 20psi, was pulling like a locomotive (scared the hell
out of the likes of Probes and TransAms). With this much boost it was
pinging under full throttle in a hot day at a race track, had to back it
off. The decision was based on the equation 1I.A.=2TAP. Drove a coupe of
cars with the Ned's mods - VERY impressive! I have not decided on the
setup for my (hopefully) coming A4TQ this spring. I may go with I.A. to
try it out. Spoke with Ned at the Glen and was treated to a ride in his
'86 5000 20v with a bazooka sized muffler. Awesome! And I don't mean the
looks of his car; like he said "it ain't pretty".
> What is the compression ratio on your car?
It is an early '89 200 with a low compression MC engine with 1 knock
sensor and a large K26 turbo. That is why I was able to dial in this
much boost (on a cold damp day).
> I ask all
> this because I'm trying to decide whose mod to use on my 91 200 tq.
> Also, do you know if the Bosch filter has the anti-drainback
> valve?
Yes it does.
> Don't want to use the wrong one. (despite the fact even tho I
> ignorantly used the Frams on my UrQ for 45k miles w/no <apparent> ill
> effects . . .
Apparent as of yet. It takes years to find out that the Audi engine had
"only" lasted 200kmi, although could have been more. I am guilty on
using a 2870A Fram for several years on my previous cars. After I bought
a turbo I have finally started doing some recearch on the subject.
Igor Kessel
'89 200TQ
------------------------------
From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <Doyt@poboxes.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:36:45 -0500
Subject: Re: 20v Oil Filter?
Been using Fram in my 86 4KcsQ for years, and have had noisy lifters for
years, and getting worse until I finally ask my mechanic, who said that the
Bosch filter has a restrictor valve that the Fram doesn't have, and this
valve somehow maintains better oil pressure in the hydraulic lifters and
they don't collapse as easily
as with the Fram.
Being increasingly worried about clattering valves, I tried the $8.00
(Bosch) cure, and most of the valve noise quieted down. Not a scientific
trial,though. I changed two factors in the xexperiment: Also replaced the
dinosaur Pennzoil 10W-30 with Castrol Syntec 5W-50.
I like the way my engine sounds, again. It has never run so quietly or been
so well behaved. Possibly it knows
that I spent the premium dollars, and it is being as good as it can be.
Sacrifice to the Audi Gods? Yeah.
Probably works like acupuncture, in very ancient, mysterious ways. Power of
mind over valve lifters.
Doyt
86 4KcsQ 150,000 miles
..............................................................................
At 10:27 AM 1/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
> I purchased a Fram oil filter for my '91 20v 200 Quattro Turbo. It
>fits, is cheap, and is the correct Fram part #. The dealer, however, says
>don't use anything but the Audi filter (at 10 times the price).
> Is this good advice? Is the Audi filter gold plated. Does it matter?
>
>Lynne Gronback
>alkdjf
>lkajdhf
>lkajdhf
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <Doyt@poboxes.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:36:48 -0500
Subject: Re: BIG VALVES -Reply
The risk of sodium is that it reacts violently with water to produce
hydrogen gas, and the hydrogen gas
frequently explodes/burns due to the large amount of heat generated by the
reaction. Sodium itself is a metal
with a low melting point.
If you get the sodium out of the valve, somehow... don't get it wet. Now,
more than you ever wanted to know about sodium:
Sodium is stored in laboratories under light oil, or sealed in an inert
atmosphere. If it gets loose, cover it with oil to keep the air and water
away. If you put the oily sodium into water, it sizzles, releases the
hydrogen, and it buzzes around on the surface of the water like a crazed jet
skier. It is so hot that it melts and becomes liquid sodium, and when it
blows, it spatters the liquid sodium all around, about 3-4 feet or more.
WHAP!
And then the little pieces start going off. If it gets on your skin, it
reacts with the water in your
tissues and causes a bad chemical burn. The liquid that results from the
reaction is sodium hydroxide, known
to most of us a a drain cleaner. Really dissolves grease, turning it into
soap. Does the same to the fat in your tissues, and makes your skin feel
slippery. Wash with gallons of water for about 15 minutes, and consult
a physician.
You can dispose of sodium metal by calling the local bomb squad, 'cause
thats what you are dealing with.
The sodium is O.K. as long as you keep it sealed inside the valve, without
access to air or moisture.
Couldn't resist this chance to save a few more lives/eyes/skin/etc. OH!
Don't touch it for any reason.
Wear safety goggles.
Doyt
86 4KcsQ handled at least 15 pounds of sodium in my lifetime. Scares me.
...........................................................................
....................
At 06:10 PM 1/7/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
><
>>I'm not sure of the part numbers, but there is an air-cooled VW app that
>>uses 35mm sodium filled valves. they're a lot longer than the audi's, but
>>they're cheap and your local machine shop could cut them down and do the
>>keepers...
>
>Better watch how far you cut them down, lest that expensive (And Toxic)
>Sodium get's out.....
><
>
>For a science experiment we broke one open in a shop a few years back,
>were careful not to touch it, just kinda oozed and bubbled as it was
>exposed to the air. Not blinded by science this time...
>-
>Dave
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Rich Andrews <rjandrew@ppp.smu.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 00:47:41
Subject: Re: Free O-rings
- --- On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:38:07 -0700 Brad Anesi <banesi@novell.com> wrote:
I was given a bunch of GAPI R-12 O-rings - more than I'll ever possibly
need or use.
The sizes are: 30 x 3, 38 x 3, 40 x 3, 42 x 3, 32 x 3.5, 33 x 3.5 - all in
sealed bags of 100 - total of 13 bags.
Cover my shipping costs (figure $5) and they're all yours.
First e-mail with U.S.A shipping address gets them.
Brad
Brad,
I would be more than willing to take these off of your hands!!!
Give me your address and I'll send your $5.
TIA,
Rich Andrews
1406 Summer Dell Ct.
Roanoke, TX 76262
- --------------------------------------------------------
Name: Rich Andrews (jr)
E-mail: Rich Andrews (jr) <rjandrew@ppp.smu.edu>
Date: 01/08/97
Time: 00:47:43
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
- --------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:18:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Yahoo!
>Don't you guys hand wash your babies?
Never, whenever I tried to do it looks like sh%&, I also have 5 car washes
in less than 2 miles from my house (in Yorba Linda).
86 5Kcstq a very clean car always washed professionally
------------------------------
From: "Anthony K.B. Chan" <chan@seattleu.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: '89 80 - miss and idle instability problem
Is there a crankcase ventilation pipe in the 4 cylinders model? I am not
familiar with the 4 cylinders, I had an 85' 5ks and now a 92' 100 V6.
My 5ks has similar but not exact problem. The problem was traced to the 2
piece crankcase ventilation pipe. The actual pipe from the crankcase is
metal but it is very short, it is then connected to a plastic pipe that
goes to the idle stabilizer. The two pipes are connected together by a
piece of rubber hose that are clamped to each of these two pipes. Over time
the rubber hose melted partially and created any air leak. The engine
missed as if it was an ignition problem. I even replaced all the plugs as
well as the coil and the coil wire and finally traced the problem to the
crankcase ventilation pipe. It was a $5 fix, I did went to the dealer to
but a section of the rubber hose, it's $5 for a foot(it has 1/8" think
wall and even has part number on it), only need two inches of it.
Good luck,
Anthony Chan, First Hill, Seattle, WA, USA.
chan@seattleu.edu
92' 100 V6 Tornado Red.
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Bryan Lally wrote:
> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:25:44 -0700
> From: Bryan Lally <bryan@mst.lanl.gov>
> To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
> Subject: '89 80 - miss and idle instability problem
>
> My Audi goes vroom at idle. No, this is a bad thing! It also misses.
> Anyone want to play a remote diagnosis game? Here are the details to
> date.
>
> Car: 1989 Audi 80. 2.0l 4 cylinder. Front wheel drive, not a
> quattro. 72,000 well-taken-care-of miles. KE-Motronic fuel injection
> (the mechanical fuel distributor, continuous injection setup with a
> Motronic computer unit). The car was running fine until about 1 month
> ago, when it started this behavior suddenly. As we started to
> investigate, the car suffered from the cappucino incident (failed
> coolant pressure cap), which was not connected to the current problem,
> and has been fixed. I realize that the offering to the Audi gods for
> the pressure cap may well have been insufficient.
>
> The short story:
>
> The car exhibits 3 symptoms. All happen somewhat sporadically -
> sometimes 2 seconds apart, sometimes 2 minutes. The symptoms are
>
> 1) vroom at idle,
> 2) miss, most noticeable under load, but seems to occur at any
> speed or load
> 3) voltage blip at test point used to read motronic fault
> codes.
>
> The "vroom" (1) is a momentary increase in RPM from idle by 3-400 rpm.
> The idle goes back to normal immediately. It is caused by the idle
> stabilizer responding to it's control signal - i.e., the stabilizer
> works, and the computer is generating the signal to make it go vroom.
> Why is it generating this signal is the big question.
>
> The miss is a short miss, but seems fairly complete, like spark
> disappeared for a short period. Not a light stumble.
>
> The voltage at the motronic test points is normally 1.5v (engine
> running), or 12v (engine not running, key either on or off). During
> the "blip" the needle swings to ~5v. Of course, the actual spike
> could be higher (it's probably 12v), but it is short, and the needle
> doesn't react that quickly. The correlation factor for the voltage
> spike and the vroom/miss is 1.0 - they _always_ happen together.
>
> The long story:
>
> The idle vroom is annoying, and a bit of a safety hazard in parking
> lots. The miss is bad enough that it must be fixed. We've been over
> everything we can think of, and have come up blank. Any ideas before
> I take it in to Mr. Dealer? Or, just want to play along and predict
> what Mr. Dealer is going to find? I hate to admit defeat on this one.
> Here's what we've looked at.
>
> Alternator - we disconnected the alternator and ran the car on the
> battery, in case the diodes or voltage regulator were causing voltage
> spikes that were confusing the computer. Nope. Rule out faulty
> alternator/regulator. We also looked at the voltage across the
> battery terminals, and saw no spikes.
>
> O2 sensor - we disconnected the O2 sensor, and ran it open loop.
> Nope. Rule out faulty O2 sensor and exhaust manifold leaks.
>
> Intake leaks - we searched for intake leaks, false air, etc. We found
> none. All the hoses look to be in excellent shape.
>
> Slightly temperature dependent? - the symptoms don't seem to appear
> immediately after a cold start; it takes about 1.5 miles for anything
> to happen. The symptoms do occur immediately on a warm start.
>
> Water temperature sensor/switch - we have complete gone over the
> temperature sensor and switch, measuring, testing, etc. We were
> really interested in this, as the problem seems to be _slightly_
> temperature dependent, and since we got temperature sensor fault codes
> from the computer. Finally, we determined that the temperature
> sensor/switch should have a value of about 200 ohms when the engine is
> fully warm. So we put a 200 ohm resistor in the wiring harness, to
> simulate a warm and perfect temperature signal. Nope. Rule out the
> temperature sensor/switch.
>
> Idle stabilizer - other than the vroom, the idle is perfect. If we
> let the clutch out slowly, feeding in no throttle, the idle stabilizer
> will keep the idle speed up and we can drive away. The stabilizer has
> been cleaned. If the stabilizer is disconnected (with the engine
> warm), the vroom will (of course) go away. The miss and voltage spike
> remain, and the car idles nearly perfectly. Rule out idle stabilizer.
>
> It was suggested that since the Motronic computer is near the lower
> heater duct in the front passenger foot area, that leaving the heater
> off might prolong how long the problem takes to commence. No, this
> doesn't happen.
>
> What to do next and possible theories:
>
> Take car (and wallet) to the dealer. Make a proper offering.
>
> Check power input to computer, at the computer connector. If this
> voltage is intermittent, the computer will be constantly rebooting.
>
> Check temperature sensor value at the computer connector, to look for
> faults in the wiring harness. Not very likely, as the problem occurs
> with the temperature sensors disconnected completely in the engine
> compartment. This test says that the temperature wire is not going
> open, as we created an open and the fault still occurred. It is
> perhaps slightly possible that this signal is intermittently getting
> shorted to ground. But it has no correlation with driving over bumps,
> etc. It will happen idling in the garage, not moving.
>
> Open up the computer unit, and spray "cold" spray on the components
> while they are operating and see if the problem can be made to
> disappear or get worse. Of course, squirting stuff on the operating
> computer is risky and may end up with having to perform the following
> item.
>
> Replace the computer - expensive, if this isn't the problem.
> Expensive, if it _is_ the problem. Anyone know an approximate price
> for one of these?
>
> Resolder connections on computer. I've looked at the boards, and
> there is not much that can be done in there. This isn't hand-soldered
> hardware, although I've heard of someone doing this on a K-Jetronic
> setup. A screwup results in the previous item.
>
> Because of the abruptness of the voltage spike, and the similar
> performance at all speeds/loads, I have concentrated on electrical
> problems. It just doesn't seem to me that fuel flow is the problem
> here. Let me know if this is a bad conclusion.
>
> As always, thanks for any advice.
>
>
> - Bryan
>
> '94 BMW K75S _red_
> '94 Honda XR250L with extra needles and thread
> '89 Audi 80 I think I can, I think I can ...
>
------------------------------
From: Andrew Fletcher <FLETCHA@citec.qld.gov.au>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:37:50 +1000
Subject: Leasing a new Audi A4 - AudiDoDat?
Hi all,
Yes, back from hols and interested to see the recent discussion on the
price of a new A4 in the USA. Just shows how much tax we pay on
new cars here in Australia. A new A4 **starts** at $46,000AUS, thats
about $36,800USD currently. BTW a new A8 4.2 quattro comes in at
$195,000AUS.
Anyhow enuff of that what I really would like to know is what leasing an
Audi is all about in the states... it is only just beginning to catch on here in
Oz. Personal I mean not company leasing thats been around for a while.
Does it work on a 2 year, 70% residual at 12% type arrangement.
I would like to move to the US as per previous posts and we will prob
just pick up a pre '85 Audi for under $4K for the first 6 months, but if
leasing is cheap enuff we might just go for a new A4 straight away???
Anyone in OZ, my newly aquired urQ would be up for sale *sob* very
shortly if the offer in the USA is too tempting but I'll list it here first, just
some prior warning.
Please reply directly to fletcha@citec.qld.gov.au
regards
Fletch
'81 urQ 95K miles
------------------------------
From: WARATAP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:42:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: V8 Rear Window
Just a quick note before I leave. I know I'll miss the list while I'm gone,
but I was wondering if anyone knows about the 'special' rear window glass I
got on my V8Q. The summer before last the rear window shattered on its own,
car was parked in driveway -no rock or other projectile (stress fracture??).
Anyway, had my local dealer order me up a new one for the local glass shop
to install. But guess what?
The new one doesn't have the 20 or so bands across the window, but rather 80
(yes 80!) hair thin bands laminated between the two glass layers plus the
requisite lead for the rear antenna and one for (goes across top and then at
the center straight down) car phone?
O.K. I know its long-winded, but the defogger doesn't seem to work as well
as the previous unit despite the multiple bands. I haven't checked
resistance or power to the leads, but was wondering if anyone else has
experience with this window. Anyone have this window or seen one like it?
And yes, it is DOT,does say 'quattro' at the bottom and its made by Sigla.
Any suggestions?
- -Ingo Rautenberg
QCUSA member
Bloomfield Hills, MI USA
90 V8Q 159K+
85 4KQ 130K
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #33
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