Re: Setting a few "facts" straight

["George S Achorn III" <coolidge@nicom.com>]

R Scharf Wrote:


> And the new Audi A3 versus the Golf/GTI.

	The Audi A3 will not be sold, atleast not yet in the US, thus a US
dealership with VW and Audi doesn't have to worry about that overlap. As
for Europe, I was not aware Audi had the sales problems they do in the US.
As far as I know they do not.

> <<	Porsche is the last privately owned Sports car builder in the world.
>>
> 
> What about TVR?

	Let me restate...Porsche is the last MAJOR privately owned Sports car
builder in the world. I think we can safely say that TVR is not on the
volume sales or technological level of Porsche. I think they also outsource
their engines, and tune to spec, thus not fully manufacturing their cars.

> <<  They are still owned by the family of Ferdinand Porsche. I think at
one
> time VW
>  had some controlling interest, but the Porsche's and the Piech's bought
it
>  all back. >>
> 
> Actually, Volkswagen had exclusive rights to Porsche's outside
development
> capacity until the late '60s.  After that Porsche began cultivating its
major
> business in contract development for most of the players in the car
business.
>  VWAG never had any financial/ownership interest in Porsche and the
> Piech/Porsche families have never relinquished their control over the
company
> except to sell non-voting stock to raise capital.

	You're probably right here. In trying to remember where I had heard this,
I recall a friend told me this, quite possibly BSing. That is to say I
heard it rather than read it in a reputable publication.

> << 	Ever wonder why the way cool Avus and Spyder Quattro's were never
built?
>  Porsche was week and almost selling out at the time, possibly to Benz or
>  BMW. VW did not have the cash to buy, they were also weak. So, with the
911
>  redesign about to happen, an Avus and especially the Spyder would have
>  possibly killed Porsche as a private company, and there is more than one
>  person on VWs board who didn't want that to happen.   >>
> 
> Pure conjecture.  Sounds nice, but few facts.  More likely scenario is
that
> Audi (and VW) simply didn't have the money to "productionize" either of
these
> show cars.  Neither one was anywhere near ready for serious production
when
> shown in Frankfurt/Tokyo.

Let me quote from the April 1992 issue of Sports Car International
MAgazine, which by the way has a great article on the Avus and Spyder show
cars.
	"...but it is the more conventional and fully roadworthy Spyder that
stands the best chance at production. The brief given to Dr. Piech by the
stylist Erwin Himmel specifically stated that no major changes to layout
and overall design would be required to take the show car into production.
Therfore the spyder looks like it belongs in your garage and not on a show
stand."

The article goes further stating:
	"The car could enter the German and European market right now with little
trouble."
It also stated that they needed to sell atleast 10000 annually to justify
building it.
	By the way, I read that rumor about the Piech's in several mags, so while
it was a rumor, it was relatively accepted enough to print.
	Perhaps you are right, and they could not justify building an aluminum
sports car. That's probably why in the next year the A8 show car came out.
I think it was called the Silburpfeil. In anycase you find today an A8
sedan, and in the works an aluminum A2 minicar.
	It's too bad though, the spyder would have been a great car. I once did
some math, and no longer have the variables, but I compared the difference
in curb weight of an S4 and a 100 sedan. I added this to the projected
weight of a US Spyder and then added 50lbs. extra for conservative guess. I
compared that in a ratio with the hp of a stock RS2. What I was theorizing
here was a US version of an RS Spyder. Providing the I-5 would have fit in
the car this would have been feasible. 
	I then compared this ratio to power to weight ratios of other competitors
at the time. This was 1994, so it was compared to, among other things...the
Ferrari F40, Porsche 959, C4 Turbo, and Dodge Viper. The power to weight
ratio beat all these and then some with the exception of the F40. That's
pretty good company when you consider price. The Spyder was projected to
sell at $40K. We can guess an RS spec one would have gone out at most at
$75K. That's quite a deal in my book.
	Later-G