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quattro-digest Saturday, 18 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 117
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* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
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* In this issue:
Re: Reality of awd
Re: 2nd try...??? 2.8 V6 Turbo????
Re: visionaries
Re: 97 A4Q Specifications
Deamon Tweaks & Double lights
oil temp - 200Q
visionaries
Re: Tire Wear (Now alignment)
Re: propeller shaft bearing failure
Re: 4kq rear propeller shaft
RWD Audi?
Snow & Ice 97 Novice Rally School
FS: '91 90 20V Q
temp guage
Broken gas pedal
Re: Credibility II
Re: Deamon Tweaks & Double lights
Re: Reality
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: QSHIPQ@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:35:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Reality of awd
Interesting to note, as well, tho, the document trail on q's on the pole is
massive when you look at the prorally, and off road theatres.... Based on
posts here regarding dry traction, one would think the finishes to be more
like the history of awd off-road racing. There is little to argue with awd
in these venues.
holding onto my hat to collect the exceptions to be noted to either post.....
:)
Scott
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 15:38:22 EST
Subject: Re: 2nd try...??? 2.8 V6 Turbo????
On Jan 17, 8:11pm, Graydon D. Stuckey wrote:
> Subject: Re: 2nd try...??? 2.8 V6 Turbo????
> On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Achille Riviello wrote:
>
> > Just a quick question: is it possible to retrofit a turbo to
> > the 2.8 V6 in an A4?
>
> Sure, anything is possible. Adding turbo(s) to an A4 would be a
> reasonably straightforward project for a shop that knows their
> turbos/electronics/etc very well.
Yep. Except that they'd have to toss out things like the battery,
air conditioner, and hydraulic pumps to make room for it. :-)
Dan Masi
'96 A4Q
------------------------------
From: QSHIPQ@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:46:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: visionaries
In a message dated 97-01-18 15:27:42 EST, you write:
<< >and they now have 130/100 watt outers with stock inners. I don't have
>I have been reading continuously from all of you "high wattage fans" and do
>not yet understand this infatuation with high watt bulbs, the effectiveness
>of the light in much more connected to the >SHAPE< of the prism and it's
>>LOCATIO< than it is to high wattage, you are not improving the light (by
>much), you are mostly causing discomfort to other drivers on the road
>(using those ungodly powerful bulbs!!!!!), regardless of how well you
>lights are aimed!!!!!!!!!!!
>Why not just do a sid >>
Phil and Erics comments aside, the above post is CORRECT in it's argument...
The effectiveness of a light is much more connected to the shape of the
reflector and the lense, not the wattage.... I would expect more comparos
from either of the two running them than what was posted.... Common argument
is what is posted above, uncommon argument is Phil and Eric.... Data? The
list can help you establish your comparo.....
Squinting kinda askance at the watts thing, arms akimbo
Scott
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 15:52:15 EST
Subject: Re: 97 A4Q Specifications
On Jan 18, 1:46pm, Mark Blum wrote:
> Subject: RE: 97 A4Q Specifications
> Uh-oh,
>
> > Absolutely. You should be scared if your oil never gets
> > up to 220F! It needs to be at least that hot for prolonged
> > periods once in a while, to get rid of moisture.
>
> I might have a problem then. I have a 97 A4 and my gauge only gets
> up to about 200F (about the 1/4 mark) even on extended runs (~2
> hours). My coolant gets up to a exactly a hair below the midpoint
> on the gauge, but my oil never gets past 200F-205F. Is this a
> problem?
I don't think so. Sorry, I was a bit extreme in my post! It's
not like water won't evaporate at 200F... it will, of course.
- -dan
------------------------------
From: Jay Welsh <jwelsh@usa1.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:45:35 -0500
Subject: Deamon Tweaks & Double lights
Went right out and got one of the last two Autosport / Deamon tweaks
catalogs today at Barnes & Nobel today in Saugus Ma
Way Cool!
Has anybody used PIAA H4 BULBS with clear highbeam and amber(ion coating)
dipped beam before?
I didn't want to get sucked into this Eurolight thing
But.....
FWIW
On page 93 the DT catalog lists a H1/H3 Ciebe dual light "morette" conversion
for the '92 on Audi 80 for 287.79 pounds if this is any interest to anyone.
On page 414 of the '94 (didn't spring the $40 for the new one) D&W catalog
(German Auto parts )
they show / list a dual bulb conversion (4 rounds ~5.25) for the series 2 80/90
manufactured by GFL (?)
CYA
J!
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:33:04 GMT
Subject: oil temp - 200Q
In message <970118150316_1624162220@emout14.mail.aol.com> QSHIPQ@aol.com writes:
> Oil temp - 200 q the post.
Agreed. The one example known personally to me (Roger Galvin's car) has _no_
oil thermostat, but the USA and other parts of the world have different
engines. I would not be surprised to find an oil thermostat on a 200q -
especially an older one.
> Most q's do have those...
The WR, GV, WX, MB, RR and KW engines don't seem to.
> Regarding thermostats, you might be careful on the generic post of those,
> phil, audis have one oil thermo listed @100C, but a myriad of combinations
> of water thermos and fan switch thermos.... Best to stick with stock
> application for your car... Without the boring details, there are more
> than just obvious reasons for it.... BTW, if anyone needs the part
> numbers for these audi thermo matricies, I do have them.
Absolutely. Any 100c water thermostat for any application.
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:54:43 GMT
Subject: visionaries
In message <970118154603_1691602321@emout11.mail.aol.com> QSHIPQ@aol.com writes:
> In a message dated 97-01-18 15:27:42 EST, you write:
>>I have been reading continuously from all of you "high wattage fans" and do
>>not yet understand this infatuation with high watt bulbs, the effectiveness
>>of the light in much more connected to the >SHAPE< of the prism and it's
>>>LOCATIO< than it is to high wattage, you are not improving the light (by
>>much), you are mostly causing discomfort to other drivers on the road
>>(using those ungodly powerful bulbs!!!!!), regardless of how well you
>>lights are aimed!!!!!!!!!!!
> Phil and Erics comments aside, the above post is CORRECT in it's argument...
I don't see why my comment needs to be laid aside, unless you didn't really
read what I said:
+ Yes and no. We're not talking about "no expense, effort and appearance
+ spared" rallying or racing systems. If you're into forest roads and
+ closed circuits and you don't care what the car looks like - I
+ absolutely agree with you. You never see rally cars fitted with high
+ power bulbs in stock lights.
That, I believe, does concede the essential points about geometry and
positioning. For about the eighth time, I'm discussing a compromise which
you are ruling out of court because you don't have the faintest idea what
I'm talking about - your posts (bilateral symmetry in particular) clearly
demonstrate that you have no experience of the type of Euro light fitted to my
car.
- --
Phil Payne
Phone: +44 385302803 Fax: +44 1536723021 CIS: 100012,1660
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: George Harrison <georgeh@iol.ie>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Tire Wear (Now alignment)
William Murin wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Dan Simoes wrote:
>
> > > > Alignment for a Q is ~60 -100 $ (that is US dollars)
> >
> > My independent gets about $120 (~2 hrs). The dealer quoted
> > me over $200 for a 4 wheel alignment, says it's because
> > the rears are so hard to do - front only, $79.
>
> My 87 4kq had some rear suspension components changed last Summer. I was
> told that it then needed a 4 wheel alignment.
>
> Local tire shop did it. I think the charge was $75(US $$$).
>
> Bill Murin
Speaking of cost of 4 wheel alignment.....I get mine done here in Dublin
for IRP35, that's about 50USD. They seem to know what they're doing but
maybe someone can answer this.....On the measuring heads that are fitted
to each wheel during alignment, there are spirit levels.....how
important is it that these 'heads' are set level? I still have a
'wander' when driving, and as road surface detioriates the wander
increases. Maybe 'wander' is the wrong term here.....as I drive over ANY
road imperfection, even the road markings, the car will change direction
without moving the steering wheel. This means constant attention to
steering and leads to a very tiring drive. Could this be caused by
subframe bushes? Over the past year I've replaced all 4 shocks and
top-mounts, all wishbone bushes and fitted new Pirelli P700's all round.
The car in question is an April 1985 ur-q.
Any help appreciated,
George Harrison
County Kildare,
Ireland.
'85 ur-q
'86 80 Sport
------------------------------
From: "Gene R. Rankin" <grankin@itis.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:53:28 -0600
Subject: Re: propeller shaft bearing failure
On 17 Jan 97 at 20:57, Mason Bender wrote:
> I know many people have met with the demise of the center bearing in the
> propeller shaft to the rear diff.
>
> Could someone please take a moment and describe the symptoms of the
> failure?
>
My urQuattro's shaft bearing failed. It started as a whine, seemed to be
located @ the R front wheel well, turned into a grumble obviously located
in the center. The bearing in mine was the same as off a BMW. The truck
shop I took the car to (the alleged Audi specialist claimed to be unable
to do the job, the dealer wanted to install a new $900 shaft) pulled the
shaft, marked the universal spider (to get it back together the same way),
pulled the spider, slid the bearing off, read the numbers inside it,
looked 'em up, found the comparable number, got it from the BMW shop,
reassembled all & sent me on my way. Took 1.5 days, cost me $90 in all.
Gene Rankin / Madison, WI
------------------------------
From: "Luis A. Marques" <marques@ti.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:01:33 -0600
Subject: Re: 4kq rear propeller shaft
> Mason Bender <mbender@freenet.columbus.oh.us> wrote:
>
> Dear Quattrophiles-
>
> I know many people have met with the demise of the center bearing in
> the propeller shaft to the rear diff.
>
> Could someone please take a moment and describe the symptoms of the
> failure?
>
> I think I am probably at the begining stages of this, however I am not
> sure. Currently my 4kq (126k) whines from the middle of the car. The
> sound is especially noticable inside the car (barely noticable
> outside). The whine is only audible in cold weather, and is vehicle
> speed dependant.
>
> TIA for any info,
> Mason B
I have experienced the same thing these last couple of freezing days in
Texas. I hear a grumbling/whining sound from the center tunel area
which is strictly speed related, mostly in very low speeds (<10 mph)
when coming to a stop or starting from a stop. I hadn't heard the sound
in warmer weather and the sound goes away after driving for a while.
The car is also a 4kq and has about 135k mi. on the clock. Is my center
bearing on the way out? Please tell me this is not the case.
Thanks,
Luis Marques
'87 4kcsq
------------------------------
From: Luis Marques <marques@ti.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:19:36 -0600
Subject: RWD Audi?
All this talk about the supposed advantages of AWD vs. RWD on the track
got my thinking so (althought this may sound like sacrilege) here's the
question: has anyone taken a 5ktq and converted it into RWD and raced
it? How would a 350hp 5ktRWD compare against, lets say, a BMW 540i?
Just wandering...
Luis Marques
'87 4kcsq
------------------------------
From: "Bob W." <zcritter@netaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:21:19 -0500
Subject: Snow & Ice 97 Novice Rally School
To quote our Rallymaster this is what you will need to bring:
"Bring pencils, paper, clip board, and a digital watch that is easily
set to
correct time of day. A stop watch and calculator may come in handy too,
but
are not neccessary for novices."
The Novice Rally School will be held at 8PM at the Hampton Inn in Bow,
NH on 1/31/97.
If you have any questions please let me know.
Bob W. B>}
NEQ http://www.netaxis.com/~zcritter/director.html
------------------------------
From: "Sherry & Chuck Clark" <clark@rmi.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:29:14 MDT
Subject: FS: '91 90 20V Q
Hello everyone,
Well just out of curiosity I went to this car lot and drove the
above mentioned car because it looked so good. It's bright red with
tinted windows and has the Speedline rims which were in very good
shape. 93.5K mi, tan leather in good condition, new: clutch, brakes
and rotors, full tuneup(plugs, wires,dist, rotor, and new timing
belt) I saw all the paperwork on this-over $2000 for everything. Car
drove really well, nice power for a nat.asp. 20V. tracked straight,
no clunks while turning, shifted great, no evidence of overspray
from what I could tell. Paint really looks nice. The guy has it on
consignment down at the car lot b/c he was recently transferred to
Texas so he says no need for quattro. Yeah right! Anyway, asking
price was $10,200.
I've no affilitaion with any of the parties involved
whatsoever. Just thought I'd post it in case anyone's looking for
such a car. The guys name is Duane(not the owner of the car, I don't
know his name) # is (719) 576-0500 or try (719) 633-4807 ask for
Rick
Good luck,
Chad Clark
Colo. Spgs., CO
------------------------------
From: Joseph Yakubik <75363.2524@compuserve.com>
Date: 18 Jan 97 18:27:50 EST
Subject: temp guage
What are the odds of a brand new multi-function sensor being bad? I purchased a
new, re-designed three prong sensor to take the place of my intermittent 4 prong
sensor. The new sensor was slow to rise, went up to 1/4 deflection, then died.
I've checked the wiring for continuity and whenever I short the temp guage to
ground I get full scale deflection, as expected. Is the problem likely to be in
the sensor or in the ground from the engine block?
BTW: two new Bentley electrical errors. One diagramming error; the sensor
should show an internal connection to ground via the engine block/ground cable.
The other, I'm not sure what it is.
My overheat/coolant circuit was also non-functional (bad guage and no overheat
warning -- not an ideal situation). The self-test showed OK, but my coolant was
low after changing the sensor and I got no warning. The Bentley troubleshooting
led to the step: Replace the circuit board. To reduce several hours of trouble
shooting to one sentence: fuse 27 was bad. Fuse 27, BTW, is labelled as Engine
Timing I in the fuse box and as the electronic injection system fuse in Bentley.
There were no apparant symptoms of the blown fuse, other than maybe a 1-2 mpg
drop. I'm labelling it as the "magic fuse".
BTW, part 2. Fuse 27 also is the trigger for the low oil pressure switch.
Again oil system self test was good and no pressure warnings.
Joe Yakubik
no idea how hot, but at least I can tell when it's too hot
------------------------------
From: Joseph Yakubik <75363.2524@compuserve.com>
Date: 18 Jan 97 18:28:00 EST
Subject: Broken gas pedal
I drove around for several months with the spring removed and the cover taped
on. I didn't see any easy way of replacing the "hinge", the plastic broke right
at the joint. I broke down and paid the ~$25 for a new pedal from the dealer.
The whole metal arm and plastic pad gets replaced, it takes about ten minutes.
Joe Yakubik
------------------------------
From: STEADIRIC@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:28:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Credibility II
Sorry guys, This will be my one and only post in this matter.
Scott,
On December 10th you called to ask If I had any spring perches in stock
and could you get a set for a customer. I told you that I did not have
any in stock but in the next few days I should be getting a run from my
machinist. We did not agree on a price, In fact you balked at the price
and said that we would "Work something out" No agreement on money like
you stated.
In the meantime (12/9-12/12) I received five checks for full kit's (Not
Parts . . . ) so that these customers could write off the expenses on
taxes, meaning that the kit's need to be received by the end of the year.
Cash in hand beat's a "We will Work something out". I had a run of five
set's of shock spacers and five set's of Subframe bushings being
machined. This was my last run of the year. On the 12th I called and was
told by your Wife that you were in Texas for the next 1 1/2 weeks, I told
her that the call was about the suspension parts, end of call. I then
tried to e-mail you at the PDQSHIP Address and received NO Reply from
you, leading me to believe that you were going to do something on your
own, something that you said that you might do back on the 10th. If the
parts were so important to you, you would have sent a check and a
shipping account number but you did not, Am I supposed to put you in
front of others that did? Would that be fair to them?
As for your "Documented 17 contacts" I am nearly impossible NOT to get
ahold of. ALL Phonecalls to my house regardless of if I'm there or not
or you leave a message or not is logged by my computer (The Device, a
YoYo for Mac's only) AND I'm paged with the number or if the number is
blocked a code stating whether the call was local or out of the area
code. Between then and now there has been NO activity from your numbers.
You also said in a e-mail that I read both of your private mails to me .
. . I use a e-mail program called Claris E-mailer so that I keep better
threads, I have e-mailer setup to get my e-mail every hour so my mailbox
will not overflow. A AOL delivery notice therefore does NOT mean that I
have read the mail just that e-mailer has retrieved it. Since I make my
living on the road I might not see my mail for a week or two at a time.
Meanwhile I have received a threat from you that if I do not answer you
in the manner that "You" see fit You will try to publicly trash me . . .
At this point the only thing that I can say is "Whatever"
Eric Fletcher
Steadiric@aol.com
------------------------------
From: STEADIRIC@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:32:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Deamon Tweaks & Double lights
>On page 93 the DT catalog lists a H1/H3 Ciebe dual light "morette"
conversion
>for the '92 on Audi 80 for 287.79 pounds if this is any interest to anyone.
That's more expensive than the euro conversion.....
Later!
Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
'87 5KCSTQIA2RSR2B
St. Louis, MO
STEADIRIC@aol.com
------------------------------
From: "Randall C. Markarian" <asenna@accessus.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:49:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Reality
QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote:
>
> As I read with keen interest on the subject of the "superiority" of awd, I
> smile some; despite some rather dubious claims of awd track car prowess, that
> this rarely, in fact, just doesn't translate to street car variables...
> About a year ago, I went on an ernest quest to determine how production
> autos faired in recent years with this exact debate. In fact, more
> specifically, I really wanted to understand how I needed to load the deck in
> my favour, as sibling rivalry had plopped a awd Stealth tt into my brothers
> garage. A formidible task, but some interesting DOCUMENTED results, street,
> track and racing venues here in the US.
>
> With reference to the Mitsus: fine machines, tho neither the awd talons, or
> the covetted 3k/stealthtt 320hp beast show the true advantages of awd in
> these tests or at the track in stock form.... In fact, as I have posted
> before, the summations of them is usually a reference to how effortlessly you
> get the speed, but not from sitting at the top of the pole. The 3k/tt got
> close, no doubt, but the RX7tt and the Toyota Supra tt got the prize, both
> rwd cars.....
Both much lighter than the 3000gt.
> One could argue that the tweeks applied to the awd might
> easily surpass the efforts of these formidible rwd cars, my point, and the
> point of these exercises, is to compare street stock available machines. My
> research has yet to find the awd cars on top when comparing "apples to
> apples", save my hi hp argument with the 993.... Do they raise the standard
> above some of the faster machines? You bet, R&T put the 3k/tt above the
> corvette in one of the tests, that's formidible (maybe not, another
> post).....
>
> I am firmly committed, as this list knows, to understand, tweek, modify,
> evaluate, tweek again, to find the ultimate q... My resume and background is
> long in this continual execution, some steps backward to go forward, but
> hardly less than true passion for me. All claims aside, here in the states,
> one can run all the results of even the race venues and find awd coming up
> short. Though audi has an S6 and and S4 running in luxury car, it's
> interesting to note that Renntech is OVERALL #4 with a MB, audis way down
> that list, and mitsu 3k/tt is far from the front, all, btw, to front engine,
> rwd cars... Even the formidible Mitsus on individual and overall standings,
> just don't do the awd argument justice here in the states, it's documented.
> British sure, germany sure, but I might argue (and have) the differences are
> more than here or than meets the eye , the superiority of awd here in the
> states, racing or street, just doesn't jive with the best of claimed
> testimonials here.... A cornering exit speed is just not enough applied
> physics in reality to make the awd superior.... A few have recited basic
> physics with the "given EQUAL blah blah" awd is superior, "eqaul" doesn't
> show up in any tests here in the states, and that's physics too... The most
> interesting is the 320hp supra vs the 320hp 3k/tt, awd is not the winner...
WEIGHT WEIGHT WEIGHT.
As one who is a scientist by trade (actually a dentist with significant
background in research), your basic premise is flawed. In making any
type of comparision for the purpose of distinguishing between the two
different premises, one MUST factor out all other variables to know
whether the differences between the two are valid. Therefore to say
that a BMW M3 is better on the street than a Q even though the Q has all
wheel drive is wrong. The BMW is better because of a whole list of
other attributes that have nothing to do with AWD. Why would the supra
test better that the 3000gt? RWD....No! Perhaps it is other attributes
of that car. So what I am saying is that you cannot compare apples and
oranges and expect to get anything meaningful from the comparison. So,
if you don't agree with that premise (of Real Research) I would be happy
to explain to you off of the list what it actually takes to remove other
variables and to make a meaningful comparison.
>
> Scott
- --
Randall C. Markarian
1990 V8 Quattro
1996 Merc E320
Saint Louis, Missouri
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #117
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