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Re: remote locking sends power windows up



Fellow Listers,

If anyone cares, my understanding of automatic window/sunroof
opening/closing is this:

1.      Within the "rollup/down unit" there is a sensor which senses an
increase in     	current draw.
2.      When the "unit" is triggered the window motor gets power (up or
down).
3.      When the window is all the way up, the motor begins to draw more
current,       	trying to go further.
4.      The unit stops providing power to the window motor and resets.

If the windows are already up, all the motors still momentarily try, but
the unit switches off because the current draw is above a certain
threshold.

It is easiest to just buy a unit that does this from any shop that
sells/installs car alarms.  One particular brand that comes to mind is
Clifford Electronics.  Or, you can check in a J.C. Whitney catalog for
all kinds of these units.  Expect anywhere from $40 to $80 dollars for a
unit.  You may need two units for a four door or for both one-touch up
AND down.

Anyone with one-touch down should notice the lights dimming momentarily
when the window reaches the end of its travel.  That's when the motor
starts straining to keep going and the circuit shuts off.  Personally,
I've never though this was very good for the motor, but I guess the
automakers don't seem to think so.  I even think some crappy American
cars have a switch that clicks down when you press it all the way, and
when the increase in current draw reaches a certain point, it heats up
or something and pops back up, like a cigarette lighter, thus stopping
further travel.  No offense to anyone, but a Chevy Beretta comes to
mind.

American Sunroof Company has modules that add one-touch to each of the
three positions (full open, closed, and pop-up vent), I have one on my
Saturn.  It's really cool, not only when I press and release one of
three buttons and it goes to that position and stops, but there is
another setting that will close it automatically when I turn off the
ignition (or not).  If I win the lotto or something, I may have one of
these put in my '86 Coupe GT.  (there's some Audi content for 'ya)

I think we Audi owners are used to spending a little money in the
interest of something cool and convenient.

I just wanted to explain something that I've always taken as fact from
observing my cars.  I don't want to see someone adding sensors inside
their doors to detect the position of the window.  BTW, if you close you
arm in a window going up on its own, it'll prolly hurt, but it'll stop. 
But if you have a sensor that won't stop it until the window is actually
up, you'd have to wait for the motor to burn out, or the battery to run
down, or a passersby, or stretch yourself to the battery to disconnect
it.  Not my idea of fun!

No financial interest in anything, just don't want to see any Listers
make things more complicated than they need to be.  Of course, if you
were into solder and diodes and stuff, feel free, I'm just lazy I guess.

BTW, if anyone has a set of rear disc brakes from an '88 or newer 80 or
90, or '87 Coupe GT, or a 5 cylinder non-turbo Quattro manifold, I'm
looking for a deal.

No offense to anyone else's suggestions! :-)    And sorry for the BW!

HTH,
Ken

'86 Coupe GT (for sale, salvage title)
'86 Coupe GT (keeper, hobby-type car w/toys)
'94 Saturn SL2 (daily driver, some toys)

Elliott Potter wrote:
> 
> I don't remember who origionally posted this message, but someone
> mentioned that they wanted to connect their windows to the remote
> locking mechanism so they would go up when the car was locked.
> 
> While not exceptionally easy (but what is), this does seem pretty
> do-able.  I don't know how the power windows work on the A4, but since
> they are auto-up, at least in the front (? at least in one window) there
> will be a sensor in those windows that will tell the car that they are
> all the way up, so it knows when to stop rolling them up for the auto-up
> function.  The first thing you would need would be to put one of these
> on each window; this would serve two functions--it would tell the car if
> the windows were not up, and if they were not it would tell the car when
> to stop rolling them up when it started (am I making sense at all here?
> It all makes sense to me...).  If the sensor was inconveniently
> complicated one could be fabricated with a standard lever switch.
> Next you would need an actuator: you could tap into the actuator for the
> door locks here, actually.  Again I'm not familiar with how the A4
> locking system works, but I'm guessing that when the remote button is
> pressed, the locking system gets a pulse, possibly 5V logic, which tells
> it to lock the doors.  You could tap in to the system there, so the
> pulse also went to your circuit, which would go through this procedure
> (for each window at the same time):
> 
> -is the window all the way up?
>         -if it is then send back null logic, "don't roll me up."
>         -if it is not:
>                 -while the window is not rolled all the way up:
>                         -roll up the window
> 
> This would be fairly easy to implement circuitry-wise, with probably 1
> small board, a few flip-flops, and some other assorted logic items.
> I've not thought about this in depth, maybe tomorrow during the day I'll
> think about it some more and play with a circuit diagram.  For those of
> you who aren't engineers: this would probably involve $15 or so worth of
> electrical parts, not including actually mounting the sensors for the
> windows.  All it assumes is the voltage pulse from the remote system.
> Maybe someone has a manual to verify this?
> 
> If people are still interested I can post a little more detail otherwise
> I'll quit gabbing...
> 
> HTH
> 
> Elliott


Fellow Listers,

If anyone cares, my understanding of automatic window/sunroof
opening/closing is this:

1.	Within the "rollup/down unit" there is a sensor which senses an
increase in 	current	draw.
2.	When the "unit" is triggered the window motor gets power (up or
down).
3.	When the window is all the way up, the motor begins to draw more
current, 	trying to go further.
4.	The unit stops providing power to the window motor and resets.

If the windows are already up, all the motors still momentarily try, but
the unit switches off because the current draw is above a certain
threshold.

It is easiest to just buy a unit that does this from any shop that
sells/installs car alarms.  One particular brand that comes to mind is
Clifford Electronics.  Or, you can check in a J.C. Whitney catalog for
all kinds of these units.  Expect anywhere from $40 to $80 dollars for a
unit.  You may need two units for a four door or for both one-touch up
AND down.

Anyone with one-touch down should notice the lights dimming momentarily
when the window reaches the end of its travel.  That's when the motor
starts straining to keep going and the circuit shuts off.  Personally,
I've never though this was very good for the motor, but I guess the
automakers don't seem to think so.  I even think some crappy American
cars have a switch that clicks down when you press it all the way, and
when the increase in current draw reaches a certain point, it heats up
or something and pops back up, like a cigarette lighter, thus stopping
further travel.  No offense to anyone, but a Chevy Beretta comes to
mind.

American Sunroof Company has modules that add one-touch to each of the
three positions (full open, closed, and pop-up vent), I have one on my
Saturn.  It's really cool, not only when I press and release one of
three buttons and it goes to that position and stops, but there is
another setting that will close it automatically when I turn off the
ignition (or not).  If I win the lotto or something, I may have one of
these put in my '86 Coupe GT.  (there's some Audi content for 'ya)

I think we Audi owners are used to spending a little money in the
interest of something cool and convenient.

I just wanted to explain something that I've always taken as fact from
observing my cars.  I don't want to see someone adding sensors inside
their doors to detect the position of the window.  BTW, if you close you
arm in a window going up on its own, it'll prolly hurt, but it'll stop. 
But if you have a sensor that won't stop it until the window is actually
up, you'd have to wait for the motor to burn out, or the battery to run
down, or a passersby, or stretch yourself to the battery to disconnect
it.  Not my idea of fun!

No financial interest in anything, just don't want to see any Listers
make things more complicated than they need to be.  Of course, if you
were into solder and diodes and stuff, feel free, I'm just lazy I guess.

BTW, if anyone has a set of rear disc brakes from an '88 or newer 80 or
90, or '87 Coupe GT, or a 5 cylinder non-turbo Quattro manifold, I'm
looking for a deal.

No offense to anyone else's suggestions! :-)    And sorry for the BW!

HTH,
Ken

'86 Coupe GT (for sale, salvage title)
'86 Coupe GT (keeper, hobby-type car w/toys)
'94 Saturn SL2 (daily driver, some toys)

Elliott Potter wrote:
> 
> I don't remember who origionally posted this message, but someone
> mentioned that they wanted to connect their windows to the remote
> locking mechanism so they would go up when the car was locked.
> 
> While not exceptionally easy (but what is), this does seem pretty
> do-able.  I don't know how the power windows work on the A4, but since
> they are auto-up, at least in the front (? at least in one window) there
> will be a sensor in those windows that will tell the car that they are
> all the way up, so it knows when to stop rolling them up for the auto-up
> function.  The first thing you would need would be to put one of these
> on each window; this would serve two functions--it would tell the car if
> the windows were not up, and if they were not it would tell the car when
> to stop rolling them up when it started (am I making sense at all here?
> It all makes sense to me...).  If the sensor was inconveniently
> complicated one could be fabricated with a standard lever switch.
> Next you would need an actuator: you could tap into the actuator for the
> door locks here, actually.  Again I'm not familiar with how the A4
> locking system works, but I'm guessing that when the remote button is
> pressed, the locking system gets a pulse, possibly 5V logic, which tells
> it to lock the doors.  You could tap in to the system there, so the
> pulse also went to your circuit, which would go through this procedure
> (for each window at the same time):
> 
> -is the window all the way up?
>         -if it is then send back null logic, "don't roll me up."
>         -if it is not:
>                 -while the window is not rolled all the way up:
>                         -roll up the window
> 
> This would be fairly easy to implement circuitry-wise, with probably 1
> small board, a few flip-flops, and some other assorted logic items.
> I've not thought about this in depth, maybe tomorrow during the day I'll
> think about it some more and play with a circuit diagram.  For those of
> you who aren't engineers: this would probably involve $15 or so worth of
> electrical parts, not including actually mounting the sensors for the
> windows.  All it assumes is the voltage pulse from the remote system.
> Maybe someone has a manual to verify this?
> 
> If people are still interested I can post a little more detail otherwise
> I'll quit gabbing...
> 
> HTH
> 
> Elliott