Re: Coil-over shocks LONG REPLY

[Brendan Rudack <rudack@ucsub.Colorado.EDU>]

On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 STEADIRIC@aol.com wrote:


> compresses and extends, put a damper in the middle of that and you get a 
> sideload on the piston.  Sideload=Bind.  Your answer assume's mechnical 

Are you talking about serious binding that will effect the damping rate
of the shock or just premature wear of the components from the extra
friction?    

> Incorrect again, and the answer shows a lack of understanding of the 
> terms "low speed damping" and "high speed damping".  A damper controls 
> ocilations by converting the movment into heat, it's their job.  Add 
> friction from the coil over design and you creating problems that can be 
> avoided.  

I am interpreting "low and high speed damping" as a function of piston
velocity within the damper.  Are you saying that this extra friction
from the coil-over will
cause the dampers to "fade",  what other problems might arise?  Is the
problem too much heat? My inquiring mind wants to know...

> Incorrect you don't have to run coil overs to get flexibility, if that 
> was true how come Stock Car, Supermodified and other sedan based racing 
> can get it right.

That may be true but with my resources and especially my rather "shallow"
pockets, the coil-over setup was the way to go in order to gain what I
wanted out of my car. I am no suspension "Engineer" or "Tech" but I have
driven and ridden in many Q's with MANY different suspension setups and I
feel that I have achieved what *I* wanted with this coil-over kit.  Some
may say it is too harsh but frankly I thought H & R equipped cars felt too
soft.  The beaty of the coil-over is that one has the ability to make the
car as firm or as soft as they wish for a rather minimal cost.  Another
plus is that these cars can be kept at stock ride height and still perform
extremely well.  No loss of city drivability, what-so-ever.  Personally, I
have my car lowered quite a bit (No, I don't have a bump-steer problem)
and if I wish I can raise it up for the snow season with minimal effort.

QSHIPQ> >expensive, try buying just the springs from any of the "kits".
> Eibach's ERS
> >springs are off the shelf, linear rate springs available in a universal
> 2.5in
> >dia, and you can spec the effective length in 2" increments and the spring
> >rate in 25lb increments, and relative to ANY kit available elsewhere, they
> >are price competitive for audis.  

You forgot to mention that there is a progressive rate ERS setup
consisting of 2 seperate springs, Anyone BTDT?  Might this be a"better"
approach for someone building a coil-over for street use?  I am not the
one to say, I would like to try it and see if it will help soak up those
little bumps that don't get absorbed by the "stiff" springs I am running.

STEADIRIC> Personally in large street car I'd be running larger springs
> than a 2.5" 
> Formula car spring.... If you don't understand the reason's go hit the 
> books.

I don't understand the reasons, would you be so kind as to throw a few
titles my way???

QSHIPQ> >Corner balancing a car for the track, changing ride height,
> >linear rates, and
> >phenomenal handling make coil-overs a serious improvement for the audi cars.

STEADIRIC > NONE of that requires coil-overs.......
 
>From my limited experience I don't see an easier way to adjust corner
weights than to very the ride heights.  Why don't you put a little
substance behind your statement so we all know what you mean and where
your coming from?
 
QSHIPQ> >others.  Not at the expense of ride control, height, or comfort
> >or longevity
> >either.  The street ride is not choppy, hardly unacceptable for the

STEADIRIC> Again none of that requires coil-overs.

What does it require?  Is the alternative cost-effective???  

QSHIPQ> >The rewards are worth it, the decrease in the
> >tail wagging antics of the 44 chassis alone brings smiles.  

STEADIRIC> Since understeer is the prevailing condition the "Tail Wagging"
> >comment makes no sense.....

Agreed. Scott, care to explain that one a bit better, I didn't quite
follow.  However, driving a highly modded 44 on the track with a coil-over
brought smiles to my face all day.  Especially since I am not familiar
with the 44 chassis and I was able to have a respectable "battle" with a
nicely prepped sticky tire equipped M6.....  The car became so easy to
steer with the throttle and so predictable with the addition of the ERS
"kit".  I can speak just as highly for my car.  It was running
consistently 3 seconds quicker around Stapleton than a H & R equipped
"chipped" 90Q 20v. I
have a 90Q 10v with a 2.5 inch exhaust. No other motor mods. Both cars had
the same tires,
same brakes and most importantly the same driver.
 
STEADIRIC> Which is the problem.  Most people want their cars to "Handle
> Better" 
> what does that exactly mean?  Better transient response?  More mechnical 
> grip at the front? At the rear? etc etc......  What's it going to be? 
> Enter experience.

That is exactly why the coil-over mod is so nice.  It is easy to tune and
inexpensive.  It doesn't have to be a compromise for ride height or other
factors.

Looking to add adjustable Nitrogen filled dampers or possibly even a nice
leaf-spring set-up....  I might even design a "tow" package, any
takers???


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Brendan Rudack 

rudack@umcc.umich.edu
rudack@ucsub.colorado.edu
Fenton, Michigan 
USA

'88 90q 
coil-overs, G60s, 63mm exhaust, 

'87 5000tq 
IA stage 2, ABT/Koni/Tokico's

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