Re:take a leak - I mean grow up, bully

["Randall C. Markarian" <asenna@accessus.net>]

QSHIPQ@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Brendan:
> Though Eric is correct in his "by definition" of your bumpsteer problem, I
> might temper that with the fact that his is a me too argument, so given the
> "how bad" is it, you didn't do a wrong "compromise" in your btdt
> "experience."  Technical terminology and "experience" are relative.  Eric has
> said already that he HASN'T put a coil over in an audi, so there YOU have
> more experience than he.  Compromises you have accepted, however, relative to
> "other" audi lap times and other kits (his included), I'd say you are either
> one really good driving talent, or you put the compromises to good work, and
> got more than acceptable results than Eric is giving you credit.  And yes
> folks, I drove Brendan's car at the track.  Some proper struts, and that
> thing will be really right.

Maybe yours?
> 
> "Send me your results," and techno talk are just that.  The resume reference
> of all that talk and "dead nuts" computer program is, and has culminated in a
> well sold "kit" from the lister.  It has compromises in it, grand ones, btdt.
>  None addressed here, my questions continue to be ignored on the specifics
> (camber, spacers, "custom" springs/shox).  Sending me to the books, btdt, and
> it was more than enlightening.  Interesting to note that, altho the design of
> the 5ktq coil-over kit has NO coil bind, nor has it been seen or driven by
> the claimed "Engineer", so much can be so wrong with the execution.  And my
> Experience, from stock to Sachs to a stock EF kit, a modified EF kit, to a
> coil over kit, helps me make the claims I make, by definition, experience.
> And that's only on the cars I own/ed.   I might ask a more specific technical
> question, since answers seem to be homework and experience.  The 3 5ktq kits
> that I reference that exist today, DO NOT have a coil bind problem (fact -
> witnessed by several riders), addressed by "real" custom parts.  A quick
> measure of the diam of the stock strut housing and using a 2.5 in diam
> spring, really makes this quite an ignorant discovery.  Since one claims
> Experience and Engineering in his title, maybe he can explain how silly,
> wrong goofy, non understanding, inexperienced ME, got it to NOT happen. And
> the same design kit rides on one car at 2.5 inches down, the other AT and
> above stock ride height, and both don't bind and have performance beyond all
> currently available kits. Eric?

Do you mean bind or stack?  Cuz it sounds to a non engineer like myself
that you are talking about fully compressed coils, not lateral binding
of the strut.
> 
> Using a larger dia spring to indicate that coil bind has been eliminated,
> means the Engineer took the easy route to make his suspension, also means the
> spring is not compressing uniformly or without sideload, same argument, it
> would bind, by definition, it's just wound large enough not to.  ON the
> rears:  Arguing to Brendan that you "don't need coil overs to do that" and "I
> did it differently," based on my experience of this claimants reference kit,
> indicates one might be spending too much time on the R-R in NATCC and not
> enough where the bread and butter is at home.  All this is ME too stuff.
>  Putting specific spacers in a "kit" gives less adjustability (and adds more
> cost, btdt in a vendor post) than putting a threaded finitely adjustable
> collar in the rear.  Not sure I'm clear how I don't understand what I'm
> doing, when it's the SAME thing?  Some might even argue BETTER, Eric even did
> in his post.  Front and esp Rear coil overs can be had for LESS than the
> Eric's marketed price of 1300USD, and I challenge, based on more than just my
> execution and experience, that a proper coil over will do donuts around that
> kit, subjectively on the street, and objectively on the track.  Carl
> volunteered the beast this morning for my reference.  Since it has a STOCK
> RS2 in it, it should be fairly easy for the ceramic braked "2B" with it's new
> PWM pads, RSR turbo ("a Ned Ritchie Turbo, blows the RS2 into the weeds")
>  Suspension Engineer (SP) with all that "experience" to prove his point. At
> the ready, a qclub event prolly best, but membership required.  Happy to let
> a 3rd party negotiate the track and rules.

BMW club in November Saint Louis.  I'll bring what I got, big boy, but I
cannot speak for Eric.
> 
> Sorry that I won't accept the "falling" rate argument either, that is
> misleading and without substance.  Eibach would be interested as well, so
> they can correct a few of their misleading technical brochures that are found
> in many racer supply catalogs that even real racers order from.

Does this sound familiar?  The motion ratio is proportional to the cos
of the angle the damper is from vertical.  Theis angle increases with
suspension compression.  Thus, at 15degrees the value is .966 and at
22degrees the value is .86.  Therefore the rate is falling.
> 
> The young laddie Brendan has been "spoofed" and misdirected by his naivitee.
>  Helping educate means putting your balls on the line.  I welcome anyone to
> stand me corrected with the same formulas and homework that brought about the
> coil overs on the 5ktq.  Resume won't do it, or more specifically here, is
> not enough, I drove and still do one of those references from time to time.
>  It has specific problems that shouldn't plague it, it can be improved,
> btdt2, in fact, I offered the simple rear design to the vendor over a year
> ago, so that the "new" buyers could enjoy it's benefits, and EF it's bottom
> line cost savings.  No interest?  Alrighty-then.
> 
> This thread needs an end.  Randall, we have had many discussions on theory
> and model testing methods.  Maybe one for track vs street of a couple of
> different q executions might be more appropriate than techno mumble and
> ruffled feathers all round.
> 
Scott, you are not the seeker of knowledge and wisdom that you claim. 
After blasting me in personal e-mail of how I was useless to the list
for not posting what I have learned about the V8, I have been posting a
significant ammount of info to the list(suspension/exhaust/chip etc).  I
thought you were interested in all Audi, I mean that is your "disease",
right?  Why no questions about the suspension setup on my car?  It is
not a 5k steadiric kit.  Very different and I think very special. 
Aren't you interested?  Or is it since you did not do it you do not
care?  I'm just curious.

By the way, how would you measure "street" performance?  Ver subjective
and hard to measure.
> 
> Scott Justusson, S.O.B.
> QSHIPQ@iu.alma.blatter.edu
> "Audi Chassis Engineer, Emeritus, Emerods Eminentia Infirmity" - hence
> dropped, never "comfortable" with the consequenses of the title  :)
> '87 5ktqw
> '84 Urq

-- 

Randall C. Markarian  (I got lots of degrees)

1990 V8 Quattro
1996 Merc E320

Saint Louis, Missouri