Re: Facts vs Friction

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

In a message dated 97-06-19 03:02:47 EDT, you write:

<< Thank you for your input on the blowoff valve.
 >Fact is,I tried your way and my way!
 >Your way made the CSI flap close shut!
 >and starve the engine!
 >My way cept the hoses all happy during shifts
 >and cept the turbo spinning!
>>>>>
Understanding why you do it is important Ross.  Just about EVERY turbo car
made since the late 80's has the Bypass Valve closed loop, no production
turbo car, however, has the bypass valve OPEN loop.  The documented theory is
this:  Metered air in all turbo systems should stay closed loop.  Why?  Cuz
then WOT fuel is NOT being delivered when it is NOT needed.  A bypass Valve
to atmosphere creates a rich fuel spike, period, documented (I suppose you
could argue that you are a special case with little disagreement here:).
 Race cars don't use them becuz they don't care about rich spikes (and cool
flames out the tailpipe make great pix), no cat and no care of O2 sensors
(most don't have them).  The CIS valve SHOULD close shut (more specifically,
it goes to rest position), because you don't need fuel when off throttle.
 You are NOT starving the engine.  This is basic turbo fueling theory here.
 Look at the Decel Valve, audi has it ON your car already.  Think on this
some Ross.  
 

 >...  look past what the books say and go with what 
> works!If rerouting it was better I would of left it that way!
 >What would happen, after a 22psi run, during a shift ,is a 
 >Big BOGG not what your saying!

Better is relative to what?  Did you try it?  Did you measure it?  Measure
what?  Where did you hook up the vacuum line feed?  Are you sure that the
close cycle time on the valve isn't higher than you think? What is the size
of the blow off valve openings?  Are you sure you have the correct valve
doing what you want it to do?  Blow Off Valves and Bypass Valves are
considered different animals in the turbo world, you are using them
interchangeably.  Makes one wonder...    There is no documentation NOR btdt
from other sources, including me and lots of others, that supports your
claims here.  Maybe you can explain why the REST of us are "wrong".  That
would require testing and posted results or a review of literature, however.
 
 >Please guys stay calm, I tried alot of stuff in the past years,
 >if you feel your way is better ,try it!see how it works,but 
 >don't go telling everyone I must be doing everything wrong 
 >what do you think this is a game!  

A LOT of us have tried a LOT of stuff in the past years, more than you are
giving anyone on this list credit for.  When our btdt doesn't correspond with
yours, in theory OR experience, questions arise.  22psi of boost into a k26
stock turbo?  A lot of us could have predicted your boom.  And could have
helped you avoid it.  And some bookwork (or archives here, btwt) on turbos
could have saved you from what ultimately happened.  So, no you are not doing
'everything' wrong.  When one blows a turbo and/or an engine, isn't something
wrong?  Tweeking cars should be fun, hardly a 'game'.  Fun to me means
getting the most out of the machine, not rebuilding it from crossing the
threshold.    Having ALL the answers creates a LOT of questions.  
  
> You formulas are great but fact is it works this way.
> Can you explain that?
Yes, a Bypass valve will work the way you hooked it up.  That is not the
point.  The point is, YOU have a rich fuel spike, BY formula, theory and
definition.  You also have a CAT.  Formulas of HC's washing Cats and O2
sensors is fact and theory.  If you don't want to address these things, that
is your right.  You are addressing the 'nth' mod by BV to atmosphere.  There
are a LOT of better ways to get that 'nth' mod before opening the BV to
atmosphere, and won't cost you Cats and O2 sensors or worse.
 
 >I called up Center force they said 6weeks!
 >they need a new clutch to resurface,but what I wanted was
 >to change they spring inside the clutch.
 >Did you know the flywheel on a 88 is lighter!
 >Also don't lighten the factory flywheel,because it gets way 
 >to hot!
  >>
Centerforce resurfaces the clutch AND changes the springs in the clutch.  Not
sure why you would just want springs.  Why?  What is the deck height you used
on the bowl cut the last time you did the clutch?  Remember, you are in the
peak of racing season here, so 6 weeks sounds most reasonable to me.  The 88
forward flywheel is lighter because it is flat.  This would require you use a
different clutch assbly AND a different TOB, as well as a few other mods.
  Lightening the factory bowl flywheel, done correctly, is a very good mod.
 There are some that can be bought complete, others that are modified stock
units.  Don't throw that mod away, you will be shorting yourself.  A LOT of
HIGHLY modded audis run them, Ross.

Many of us here are tolerating you as much as you are us.  This list has been
here a LONG time, newbies with enthusiasm are always welcome.  You will also
find that there are several folks that have already btdt, with EVERY one of
the mods you have claimed to date, and then some.  I encourage, and tweek
cars as a passion and sometimes as a business.  Some of us do it
conservatively, by book work, theory, comiserating, then btdt.  Doing by btdt
alone, you learn the hard way; the other 3.  I personally think you are
finding things out, know you haven't learned close all of it, encourage you
to go faster, and wish you the best of luck.  As an old list cremudgeon, and
a VERY experienced audi tweekster, me thinks you are missing out on a lot of
help and knowledge with your cummunication modus.  

And would also put in a respectful request for the delete of your advertised
.sig.  I sell audi tweeks, so does Eric Fletcher, Chris Semple, Bob D'Amato,
Graydon Stuckey, so do a bunch of others here, few, if any, with .sigs as
blatent as yours, if any at all.  Advertising here is not acceptable, dan S
has created a Vendor List for that.  You can contact him directly on how to
do that, DanS@ans.net.  If you go to archives on Peter Wales <subject> there
is plenty of discussion regarding this protocol.  

This List welcomes newbies, and your enthusiasm I find most entertaining.
 Some respect on where you parked your trailer might be better recieved by
your fellow campers.  Take it from this old list cremudgeon, noisy guests
don't find a lot of friends at QHQ.

My .02

Scott
'87 5ktqw
'84 Urq