Re: oils

[Sargent Schutt <sargent@novagate.com>]

ptimmerm@mashtun.JPL.NASA.GOV wrote:

> We have many more questions than answers here.  You bring up
> some good ones.  I do not even know thee form of the zinc in the
> solution.  there may be multiple stages involved.  Just for example,
> it may be in an organic complex, which only breaks down with heat,
> and then is bonded to the metalic surface throough friction.  man
> I never even HEARD of triboelectric behavior.  So I really don't know.
>
> These real world thing can be dang complicated.  The tribology world
> seems dominated by empirical types.  That makes blanket statements
> based on first principles difficult.
>
> Perhaps more importantly, if you are going to burnup oil before
> you break down it's viscosity, why buy the premium stuff?

Well, the premium stuff doesn't ever breakdown (so to speak). And you
don't want to break down viscosity completely, anyway. So I'm not sure I
understand your question. But I agree, why would you want to be burning
oil vs. not burning oil. Or more vs. less.

I don't know much (nil) about what I'm talking about in the tribology
dept. But my limited *understanding* is that friction-generated
electricity (triboelectrics) can take place at an elemental level wherein
the molecular reorganization (breakdown) of, in this case oil, leads to
the separation of the zinc or other metallic elements, leaving those
element/s (here, zinc) 'available' for triboelectric charging,
attraction, and subsequently bonding.

The oil breaks down, the zinc is a relatively 'strong' element (doesn't
combust/evaporate), and is condusive to magnetic/electrical bonding with
the surfaces where the triboelectric charge is generated- eg cylinder
walls and rings. Someone with a deeper understanding of processses like
galvinization may be able to explain this better.

The end result is the zinc (?) is bonded with the cylinder wall. However
that bond is not incredibly strong. The bond certainly defers to the
force of the ring against the wall, so it only bonds in the wells of the
misc micro-scratches which have occurred over many miles.  That bond is
destroyed by the introduction of synthetic oil which either insinuates
itself into the bond (via detergents) and prevents any further bonding
because of its superior resistance to breakdown or creates a stronger
bond with the zinc than the cylinder wall. Either way, your motor is
cleaned out.  Again, for the record, me not engineer. So help explain
this if you can.

TIA

Sarge

91 200q TAP
86 5ktq IA