Re: Audi Kool-Aid, Pt. II

[Dave Eaton <dave.eaton@minedu.govt.nz>]

dave,

i think that you're right, and you're wrong.  :-)

you're right in that the ur-quattro will, generally speaking, outperform the
vast majority of other audi's, especially in the twisties.  you're wrong in the
sense that this is not a factor to do with the generation of quattro, rather
the type of car.

my 20v ur-q certainly handles better and more consistently than my earlier '85
one did (no quattro 'tank slappers' when the centre diff was unlocked for one).

the torsen's which i have had experience of are in the 20v ur-q, the s2 and the
rs2.  i've also owned a '85 (non-torsen) ur-quattro.  in all torsen models i
have never experienced the 'tank slapper' which can be very intimidating in the
open diff'ed cars.  i have experienced the 'hunting' that you've mentioned and
in the vast majority of cases, this has been positive.  i find it moderately
easy for example to power drift the rs2 and lift the inside front wheel without
any loss of momentium or control.  do that in an early ur-q and you'd be going
backwards through the hedge.  the great advantage of the torsen is the speed of
it's reaction.  this i prefer to the vc which reacts more slowly an effect
which is quite noticable in cars such as the celica gt4 and the wrx.

the ur-quattro (torsen or not) is still an exceptional car (as noted in the
performance car magazine article).

-dave
'95 rs2
'90 ur-q

>
>Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:42:34 -0700
>From: "Lawson, Dave" <dlawson@ball.com>
>
>After my 86 GT was totalled, I replaced it with a 90 200 TQ wagon. And
>this car has suprised me on more than once this past fall and winter. I
>have been driving my 83 ur-q  with qV1 (locable center/rear diffs) since
>1989 and the torsen car is a huge difference. During dry and 7/10s
>driving there is not much difference but when road conditions degrade
>and driving at the limit, the torsen car is quite different. You can
>break the back end out on the wagon much easier than the ur-q. This is
>very noticable on icy pavement. I have to work the ur-q very hard to get
>the back end to come around and it is even harder when the center diff
>is locked. And twice this winter on the wagon I have had all 4 tires
>spinning and having no forward movement. This is with Gislaved snow/ice
>tires. I don't recall this happening with the ur-q, even on the ice
>track at Steamboat. 
>
>I haven't seen anyone do any tests, but I contend that a generation I
>quattro will will outperform any later version of quattro in a similar
>series of tests you describe from the article. I think Audi made a very
>consious decision here, by going for seamless <7/10 handling knowing
>that 99% of the buyers never explore the last 2 or 3/10s of what their
>cars will do. This fact comes to the surface when you take a poll of who
>has ever turned(or pushed) a diff lock switch. People don't know what it
>does and are afraid to take the chance thinking that they will break
>their drivetrains.
>
>Audi knows that for 10/10ths handling you don't put a torsen in the
>center diff position. Just review the quattro race history and you won't
>find one mentioned anywhere. For this type of application they turn to
>different technologies including no center diffs or sometimes viscous
>couplings.
>
>I know QSHIPQ has mentioned the dark side of the torsen before and I
>think Audidudi has some opinions as he now owns/drives both types of
>cars. And I think Frank A. has made the change from a 4kq to the S4 and
>probably has some input and others will too. From my seat torsen cars
>need to be treated with respect when exploring those last 2/10ths.
>That's why I am taking my 200q wagon to Steamboat this coming weekend
>and see if I can get a better understanding of it's handling at the
>limit. And it's why I am putting in a switch to the rear diff so I can
>keep it locked all the time.
>- -
>Dave Lawson