RE: Tires don't make the ride

["PAT MARTIN" <MARDKINS@classic.msn.com>]

>Well, I've driven it, and it ain't the tires sir. 
No need to use sir.  This is just a small debate and sir implies confrontation 
which I am not interested in.  I do respect your opinion very much I just 
disagree in this case.
 >Brakes on Audis are subpar, always have been. 
No disagreement here but keep reading. What are most A8 drivers doing with 
their cars?  Maybe Audi was not going for ultimate performance with the A8.  
Before you say safety just consider that Audi was the only car with 4 airbags 
standard.:-)  20ft could be tires and more aggressive abs control without a 
problem.  Maybe knowing that the quattro was going to be used in the snow a 
lot they valved it for a snow/dry balance where the others were dry balanced. 
Just a quick glance through the road test summery shows Audi's to be at least 
mid pack as far as braking distances so subpar may not best describe them..    


>However, Audi had this comparo in the bag.  Brand new ground up chassis, 
engine, >suspension and drivetrain  competing against all older ones.  With 
that given, there >should be NO excuses, this is THE top of the line flagship, 
with all those wonderful 
             >toys.
I agree that the Audi has all the ingredients to be a world beater.   But they 
compromised in too many areas and are paying the price via the press.  I have 
not yet heard any A8 owners complain about anything except the tires which 
leads me to believe that it is a great car for the target audience.
>                  You want to make it a tire issue?  If that was what would 
have put Audi at the top, y >did the powers that be at Audi put the pieces of 
crap on to begin with?  
Good question.
>After driving the Audi A8 (with SP 8000's no less) and the 740, I personally 
think that 3rd was >pretty distant, I wouldn't have even compared the two.
Definitely 2 different cars.  For you maybe it is the better car,  but again 
are you the target audience.  
>Pat, I would encourage you to drive more.  
Well, umm I kinda do drive a lot of cars on the road and track.  That includes 
the mighty m3 which you never miss the chance to praise and which by the way 
is a sports car not a sedan. Just because it resembles one does not make it 
one.  A quick ride in the back seat will confirm this. I recognize that cars 
are tuned for a certain personality and appreciate cars for their particular 
personality.  
>I advocate good cars, you build one right, from the radio to the tires, there 
are no >excuses when the mags compare apples to apples.  I enjoy driving good 
cars, it helps >me to target improvement to my 3 audi rides.  Drive any BMW, 
especially an M, and >audi brakes become a joke.  (After my first ride in an 
M3, I wanted brakes, made a Big >Red conversion for the audis - take a ride in 
one of those, and smiles abound).  Even >the mighty RS2, has 944 brakes on 
them, 4 pux no less.  Hey, how 'bout the 993's?
So are you saying the S cars brakes suck?  I have never heard that word 
mentioned when describing the S cars.  Apples to apples Audis are not that far 
behind bmw in braking on there stock sedans.
>Bottom Line:  Audi was given the platter, and it fell short.  If what you say 
is true, then >Audi could have spent the extra 50bux (the difference between 
brand x and x+) and >won the comparo outright?  Understand your argument Pat.  
You might also want to >explain how those x+ tires would be good for 20feet 
shorter braking too, since that's >where the first place Lexus came in.
>Do it right the first time, that's what this is about.  AFTER the review is 
complete, >Monday morning arrives on how Audi coulda and shoulda.  You believe 
that to be >tires.  I believe the winners to have a wee bit more than that, 
been there driven that.  >Making excuses AGAIN for sub par results.  Com'on, 
time to call the coaches...
Give me an application and lets me and you show them how to do it right.  We 
are probably not the people they are shooting for sadly.  Use the example of 
Lexus and Infinity.  Lexus shot for the luxury segment while Infinity went for 
the performance segment.  Lexus cleaned their clock.  Maybe this is what Audi 
is using for justification.  The tires could have been put on for a hundred 
reasons we may never know but performance obviously was not one of them.

Pat Martin
864000csq turbo, 2 1/2 cat back, H&R-Boge, MC and loving it.  Drilled rotors 
stopping it. Koenig Cobra 16x7 with AVS Intermediates turning it,  K&N and 
uh....
95 subaru legacy 
Bothell, Wa