Re: Going Postal

[QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>]

In a message dated 98-04-08 00:01:13 EDT, you write:


> The question is why do you own 3 of them if you feel them to be overweight, 
> poorly balanced, and with that useless quattro? 
Price, tweek potential, and I love 'em.  I compare em too, goes back to
tweeks.

> Do you really think that Audi of America could give a crap what you or I
think 
> right now? 
NO
 >They have one thing in mind right now and that is market share.  
NO
> They have smarter guys than you or I deciding what to bring and not to right
> now and 2000 enthusiasts have very little say in the big picture.  Do I
agree 
> with it?  Hell no.  BMW has the ability to bring in whatever they want
because 
> they have more market share.  Ingolstat either has very little to do with
the 
> USA situation or they think that Audi USA is doing a fine job.  If you look
at 
> the sales #s could you blame them?   
Er, ah, we could argue that in terms of ACV.  A8 and A6 models might not work
to your thinking there.  "Smarter guys?"  Well, if it's "just the tires" I
would argue, maybe we ought to rethink the label.  The A4 is a great bang for
buck.  That philosophy should carry to all the lines, it's not.  It does at
another marque.
 
 >I for one appreciate your technical posts but you lose me when you keep on, 
 >when someone disagrees with you.  You seem not to have the ability to let 
> someone disagree with you without you claiming "the numbers don't lie" or
"we 
> are waving the flag".  Can you not accept that others will disagree and they
 >may have a point.  For instance you claim awd has no advantage over a well 
 >balanced rear drive.  I completely disagree with that and that's fine.  I
will 
 >never convince you and you will never convince me so I say drop it.
Rehashing 
 >the same old stuff will not change my beliefs just as I am sure it would not
> change yours.  Several very experienced drivers on this list will also 
 >disagree with you, does that make anyone wrong?  I think not.  I think that 
> everyone has their favorite tool that makes them a better driver.  With most
>> of us on the quattro list, quattro helps to make us better drivers.  My 
 >personal experience says my car laps faster than a comparable BMW (before 
 >conversion). You would prefer a well balanced rear driver and I an all wheel
 >driver and that's why the earth goes round.
Everyone has "personal" experiences, Pat.  You may want to take a ride with
someone that might convince you otherwise regarding "your" lap time.  Or just
take your watch to your local track. Me, I look at it that it doesn't take a
lot of skill to make the comparo.  Why?  Cuz I don't claim to be WR, and had a
week in a car that wasn't mine, and I lapped the best of the Pat Martins' in
THEIR tweeked comfort zones, in the rain.  Quattro makes you a better driver?
NO advantage?  Didn't actually say that, but you read it.  My point is that
the awd advantage is waning, TO the folks that put snows on their well
balanced chassis with traction control.   Depends on where you drive IMO.
Compromises to chassis dynamics may outweigh that comfort zone.  Dry or low
cf.  Since this goofball goes to a whole bunch of track events every year in
quattro and other marques, with just a stopwatch as an instrument, my
"disagreement" with your experience, might just have some foundation.  Never
convince you?  How bout a lap time?  Steamboat or Road America.  Pick your
venue, already btdt.  Never have I seen you.  Let's hook up.  I WANT someone
to show me the "quattro advantage".  
 
 >I have the pleasure of driving a very windy road home everyday from work.  I
 >have had opportunities to drive many a car on this road.  I have driven 
> everything from the 4kqt featured in European car to a Mazda 626 and found 
> compromises everywhere I look.  The EC 4kqt is too stiff to take this road 
 >comfortably.  On the track it is a great car but get it on this road and it 
 >skips like a rock on a lake.  The 4kqt I own is quicker and a lot more 
 >confident on this road.  I suspect a seasoned M3 driver would never take the
 >road at the speed I can safely.  Would it whip me on the track? Maybe, but
we 
 >shall see :-).  The point is that when this never ending thread started it
was 
 >about large luxury cars.  Would the BMW 7 driver be able to keep up with the
 >Audi on this road?  I doubt it.
Here's a venue.  Your suspicions might be well proved wrong.  Let's look to
the test.  A given road, 5 miles long, Pat Martin finishes with a 5:30min
time.  Same road M3.  That M3 can enter the turns faster and brake later than
you (no big reds I presume).  All that extra awd weight gives you maybe an
edge OUT of the turn, but a balanced car with a bunch more power, just might
well negate the 'advantage' of your comfort zone.  If you think for a minute
that puts you ahead, you need a ride sir.  Would a BMW keep up with an A8 on
the same road?  You doubt it?  Is that before or after the "tires"?  Pat, when
I see a comparo such as you in a 4kq and a 'seasoned' driver in an M3, me
thinks flag waving.  Why?  Cuz sir, you best hope it's snowing for that to
happen.  Prove you wrong?  Please.  From what my watch calculated at the BMW
club events is that both the M3 and your 4kq will be passed by a 540i 6spd
easily.  With a 91 M5 on his tail to boot.  
 
> I too drive as many cars as possible and have had many cars in the past.
You 
> assume a lot about which you know nothing.  You would assume that since I 
> disagree I must be either ignorant or blinded by the Audi light.  If you
think 
> there are too many compromises how do you propose Audi change it?  Quattro 
> demands that the engine be moved forward to meet the front wheels.  Are you 
> proposing Audi scrap quattro.  I am sure that would do wonders for sales.
Well, we could argue that rwd is negating the awd compromises, couldn't we?
The A8 test is one example.  Do I propose Audi scrap quattro?  Maybe in the
current form.  Too many compromises, that quattro isn't negating.  "I assume a
lot about which I know nothing".  Ineresting statement.  Where's the beef?
I'm looking at a post proposing a 4kq will take an M3, and you accuse me of
assuming?  You are blinded by something, sir.  Not sure what it is.

 >Worldly.  This is just the pretentiousness I am talking about.  You again 
> assume a lot about your knowledge compared to others.  Example is the torsen
> thread.  You assume that Phil and Dave are ignorant since they don't agree 
> with you.  It does not even occur to you that you could be wrong.  Walter
Rohl 
> is also wrong because he accepts awd as superior.  >>
Walter Rohl is correct, given what he drove.  That ain't what you and I have.
Could I be wrong, you bet.  Pretentious?  Er, I'd have to look that up.
Assume a lot about my knowlege compared to others.  Hey, I don't assume
nuttin'.  My awd skill is what it is, and I make others faster with my
understanding, at least a dozen times per year, for 4+ years now, both quattro
and other marques.  From Steamboat to Road America.  I drive and watch others
drive in their comfort zones.  At the ready with my silly ole Tag Huer.  Damn
thing could be just accurate.   You need to get to an event.  There's a guy
right here in the Midwest that goes to a bunch of these events with a 4door M3
vs the quattro club.  For a couple years now.  And guess what Mr. Martin?  The
guy SETS the time to hit.  Not for everyone else, but for the sport q's and
the full trailered race rig of Mr. Anderson.  And Brad hops out of his car
sunday afternoon, lowers his tire pressure, turns on the CD, and drives home
when he's done.  A guy came out with a stock 944t to midohio with the Polumbo
brothers and did the same thing.  

So, the reality is, audis are fine automobiles.  With compromises.  Doubt it?
Set up a test.  A lap time is about as objective as it gets.  When I see the
flag waving "claims" I start to think I should get my Tag serviced and my eyes
checked.  

Dave E and Phil?  Hey, statistical non events are just those.  I don't know
either except from cyberspace.  YOU assume a lot there, not me.  My
presentation includes all non events.  The problem is the physics exists,
Tshift CAN happen.  It NEVER happened to me is a different argument.  And no
one here makes the leap that indicates the physics is wrong.  In fact, the
argument they are using is not tied to Tshift at all.  Neither can deny Tshift
can happen, it's in the design of the switch.  Both are only arguing that
Tshift has no effect on chassis dynamics.  That IS their testimonials to date.
Do I question the physics on testimonials?  No, do you?   I might agree that
there are variables that affect WHEN there is an effect on chassis dynamics.
Already posted that, and what those variables might be (like wheelbase).
Might also look for some more empirical methodology than what they posted
before I start crossing 'non-event' statisticals off the matrix.

Frustrating for you Pat?  Hey, I'm no expert.  I'm just a goofball that enjoys
quattros, and tweeks them all.  And wrenches them and compares them, track and
street, steamboat to the Poconos.  What sir, do you do?  I can land spiders in
your lap for you, Phil and Dave, I have set the FTD at steamboat with someone
elses quattro, and I can pass you in the rain on a track in an M3.  That I
claim.  Am I good?  Nope.  I'm just a goofball that enjoys quattros.   

Happy to sit in the passengers' seat with my Tag and let you prove me wrong,
many have tried.  Even helped a few go faster.  Right now, it seems pretty
accurate to me.  Reality.  So what does that make the rest of it?

"Put the watch away Scott you're missing something".  Like WHAT?  I own 3
quattros, boys and girls.  And you want to shoot the messenger?

Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ@aol.com