RE: Misquoting the spiderman (and his cohorts)

[audidudi@mindspring.com (Jeffrey J. Goggin)]

>I'm not denying that this has been observed in a Type 44.  I just wish I
>_had_ a Type 44 available to try it on.  But if this condition exists,
>as you assert, then it is a product of the Type 44/Torsen combination in
>some way - it is NOT inherent in all Torsen implementations as a
>consequence of the design.

I know that I promised not to contribute any further to this thread until I
have more factual information to post but I can't resist responding to this
one ... what is it about the Type 44 chassis that makes it suffer from
"Torsen bites" and not the Ur-Q?  While there are definitely differences
between the cars, I'm doubtful that they have much, if any effect on whether
one bites and the other doesn't...

Consider: The Ur-Q's suspension design was finalized sometime in 1979/1980
and its rear suspension was twice revised slightly during the life of the
car; the front suspension remained geometrically the same throughout the
production run.  The suspension design is relatively unsophisticated --
sorry, but it's true -- and I've got to believe that it was never designed
with an eye toward installing a Torsen center diff in the future.

On the other hand, the Type 44 suspension first appeared on the market in
1986.  The front suspension is not particularly sophisticated whereas the
rear suspension is a marvel of both packaging and performance.  Until 1991,
both the front and rear suspension remained geometrically unchanged.  Even
afterwards, the changes are very minor (except for only one bushing, you can
actually fit the S4/S6 rear suspension on an early car) and I'd be surprised
if Audi's engineers didn't account for the possibility that a Torsen center
diff would find its way into production at a later date and design the rear
suspension accordingly.

Yet, for some reason, I keep hearing everyone argue that the "Torsen bite"
is uniquely a Type 44 phenomenon.  Frankly, I don't buy it ... Audi's
engineers are certainly more clever than that.  Now, if it were the other
way around -- i.e., the Ur-Q has it and the Type 44 doesn't -- I might be
willing to accept the chassis as a contributing variable but as it is, I
find this one hard to swallow.  The early Type 44s with a locking diff
(please don't call it a "locker," as that's another type of diff
altogether!) don't have this handling quirk whereas the 90q -- which has a
suspension system *very* similar to the Ur-Q -- does...

All of that said, I was bitten again last night on the way home from work:
2nd gear right-hand turn, approx. 40mph and Yes, I was driving much faster
than I should have been on the street.  As it was, I ended up going over the
outside curb -- good thing they're FIA-spec! -- in order to keep the car
from spinning ... there is definitely *something* going on here, folks!

I'll try again this weekend to reach the author of the Torsen white-paper
and find out what his thoughts are on the matter...
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   / |      _| o    | \       _| o  Jeffrey Goggin
  /__| | | / | | __ |  | | | / | |  audidudi@mindspring.com
 /   | |_| \_| |    |_/  |_| \_| |  http://www.mindspring.com/~audidudi/
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