Re: Waving the white flag...

[Dave Eaton <dave.eaton@minedu.govt.nz>]

mmmm learning disabled.  thats a new one.

so far i have provided documentation of my own considerable efforts to provoke
my torsen audis into uncontrolled behaviour when cornering.  the spider bite
(tm).  i have failed to do so.

phil has done the same thing.  same result.

i have produced 3 road tests of the ur-quattro (torsen) against the (vc)
integrale where all the testers make reference to the handling in a positive
light compared to the lancia, and none provide *any* suggestion of uncontrolled
behaviour.  i found two more references last night.  thats 5 different road
testers.  all in the same chassis as the early open diff car, all now equipped
with torsen.  all making the same comments as phil and myself.  mmmmm...

i am one of the very few on this list who has actually *owned* a generation 1
ur-quattro w/open centre (2 years) and a torsen ur-quattro (2 years).  i have
considerable 1st hand experience of these two cars and had my scariest quattro
moment with the open diff car.  so documented.  and noticed a considerable
improvement in the handling with the torsen.  certainly scott and jeff have
*never* even *driven* the ur-quattro with torsen, let alone the rs2.  despite
this (learning disability alert), they refuse to even *consider* that there
might be other factors in the equation and other people are trying to tell
them.  they stay at their blackboards and tell everyone that the world is flat.
 scott has even had the brass to tell the list that audi didn't rally with the
torsen because it was a flawed device knowing full well that by the time they
homologated the sport (1984) the torsen wasn't even available, and only became
available right at the end of the lifetime of the s1, when the evo rules
allowed them the freedom to use it.  and we have that information form the
horses mouth.

both jeff and scott have been unable to tell me, depiste all the retoric and
theory, *how* to produce said uncontrollable behaviour in my cars.

i have even researched their points (eg slip angle) and found that (no surprise
here), it is *not* as they suggest.

learning disabled?  not from where i sit buddy.

but then, i'm not selling product to the list either; turbos, suspension or
brakes.

over and out.

dave
'95 rs2
'90 ur-q

>>scott, you have been telling us all that the torsen gets confused with slip
>>angles, because it can't understand the difference between traction and slip.

>>ok, i say, so what?  for the tyres you and i use, the coefficient of friction
>>provided by the tyre is the *same* over a wide range of slip angles. 
therefore
>>it *makes no difference* to the operation of the torsen.  by definiton.  no
>>argument, at least to the point of the slip angle increasing to the point of 
>>*decreasing* cof. your argument (at least the 7/10ths on a dry road bit),
does
>>*not* affect the torsen.
>
>I don't know how to put this politely but I'm beginning to experience the
>same degree of frustration here that I do working with my girlfriend's
>learning-disabled daughter ... despite our best efforts, she's in the fourth
>grade but still reads at a second-grade level.  By all other evidence, she's
>a normal 10-year old girl who has slightly above-average intelligence, an
>artistic flair and a fair degree of intellectual curiosity ... yet for
>whatever reason, she's having considerable trouble wrapping her mind around
>the basic concepts that constitute what we collectively refer to as
>"reading" and take for granted.   
>
>By the same token, Dave Eaton has shown that he is also of above average
>intelligence, has some artistic flair and a fair degree of intellectual
>curiosity ... apparently, he also suffers of a learning disability since his
>statement above demonstrates his inability to wrap his mind around the basic
>concepts that define how a Torsen functions when used in a center-diff
>application.  He's clearly got reading down pat but his analytical skills
>aren't up to the task.
>
>However, while I'm willing to do anything within my power to help Ellen
>ovecome her disability -- I've been up since 2:30am trying to figure out how
>I can afford the $10,000/year needed to put her in a private school that
>specializes in teaching learning-disabled children -- I don't have much
>enthusiasm for rehashing this agrument again and again and again, ad
>infinitum.  Just as her public-school teachers have given it their best shot
>and failed, I've given Dave my best shot and failed ... now it's time for
>somebody else to try their hand at it so I can move on to other, more
>productive activities.  (I'll bet Scott feels the same way about now!)
>
>My interest in keeping this thread alive was selfishly motivated.  Like
>Scott said, I still think there's some hope for the Torsen center diff in
>high-performance applications -- as everyone has already conceded, it works
>great for most people, most of the time -- and my goal here was not to
>educate everyone about its failings but to find someone who knew more about
>its workings than I did and/or who could help me figure out how to address
>its shortcomings.
>
>Having now achieved my goal, it's time for me to start looking forward to
>finding solutions rather than behind to protecting my flanks ... if and when
>I uncover something interesting, I'll post back.  Otherwise, this will be
>the last you ever hear from me on the subject of Torsen center diffs...  :^)
>